Lunar: Dragon Song review in Nintendo Power

For discussion of Lunar: Dragon Song (Lunar: Genesis), the only Lunar game on the DS
drumlord
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Post by drumlord »

Rune Lai wrote:To be fair though, games rarely get 1-4 on a 10-point scale. ^^ It generally only happens with something truly atrocious. A score of 7 seems to be the borderline that will make people wonder whether or not they should buy it (unless they're die-hards). So in that sense, a 7 is "good, but nothing special," or, what we might call average. Not the numerical average, but average in the sense of being ordinary or unremarkable.
It depends on how you are defining average. There's a chunk of critics who think regardless of the quality of things on the market, it should all even out around 5/10 so that 5 is always average. The thing is, that's not the case. Even though there aren't many truly blockbuster titles in the 9 and 10 range, most titles are still average to above average. 5-7 is a pretty safe range to say many games fall in. Most games that would fall below 5 either don't make it to market or people rarely review because they are so hum-drum they aren't worth caring about.

Basically, it's a matter of if you think you should adjust the scores to the market quality or if you should generally keep the same standards in mind for judging games. Neither one is "right" as there is no right, but most publications tend to try to keep the same standards while keeping in mind the overall quality in terms of production values is always increasing. I've noticed some publications that try to go out of their way to use "the whole scale" such as 1up end up having some really out of whack review scores once in a while. Halo 2, for instance, got perfect scores from every single Ziff Davis publication. 30 something Halo fans, I guess ;)
-Rich-

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Kizyr
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Post by Kizyr »

Drumlord wrote:It depends on how you are defining average. There's a chunk of critics who think regardless of the quality of things on the market, it should all even out around 5/10 so that 5 is always average. The thing is, that's not the case.
I think my Lunar: Genesis review is being interpreted something like that, it would seem. I think 75% is a pretty good score. I even say it's a good game. Apparently other people don't use the same scale. KF
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GhaleonOne
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Post by GhaleonOne »

That's why I originally said "Kiz is harsh in his scoring" over on GFs because it seems compared to most sites, 75 is average. In this review, and the way it should be IMO, 50 is average. So 75 is quite well above average.
-G1

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Kizyr
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Post by Kizyr »

Yeah, that's why I'd give a 50% to a game like FF7. It had its highs and lows which I felt balanced each other out, and turned out to be an average game. A decent standard, but average.

I used to be bad in scoring; everything would be between 90 and 100%, but then that got to be silly and I scaled things back. Unfortunately, not everyone does that. KF
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Apocalypse
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Post by Apocalypse »

I agree, there seems to be a discrepency in what exactly the score means. For most scoring methods that I have seen, a method similar to school is seen. For example...
scores:
10 - Great score. Given to exceptionally good games.
9 - Nice Score. Given to good games, that have some minor flaws that do not take away much from the game.
8 - Good score. Given to your games that are above average, but not particularly by much. Some flaws are present, but they won't effect the entertainment value much... if at all.
7 - Average score. Given to games that are quite average. These have flaws that might cause noticeable problems for you in the game. Nothing overly special.
6 - Below Average. Given to games that have many flaws. These flaws often take away enjoyment from the game. Storyline and gameplay in these kinds of games are often weak. Generally playable, though usually only fans of the series in which this game originates will have any real enjoyment with the game.
5 and Below - These games basically "Fail". They have bugs that severely glitch, lag, or freeze the game. For all general purposes, these kinds of games don't tend to suceed on the market. Very poor gameplay, very poor storyline, and often very poorly coded.


I am particularly strict when it comes to getting RPGs. They are my favorite genre, afterall. If they are below the seven rating, I won't even consider getting it. Even games AT the seven rating I might need to contemplate getting. Of course, Nintendo rated Riviera quite low too. Many other reviewers gave that game a pretty decent score... and it turned out to be a pretty good game. My hope, is that the same happens for Lunar. I would like the first RPG for the DS to be a good one, afterall. :wink:

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Mormon88
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Post by Mormon88 »

Apocalypse wrote:I agree, there seems to be a discrepency in what exactly the score means. For most scoring methods that I have seen, a method similar to school is seen. For example...
scores:
10 - Great score. Given to exceptionally good games.
9 - Nice Score. Given to good games, that have some minor flaws that do not take away much from the game.
8 - Good score. Given to your games that are above average, but not particularly by much. Some flaws are present, but they won't effect the entertainment value much... if at all.
7 - Average score. Given to games that are quite average. These have flaws that might cause noticeable problems for you in the game. Nothing overly special.
6 - Below Average. Given to games that have many flaws. These flaws often take away enjoyment from the game. Storyline and gameplay in these kinds of games are often weak. Generally playable, though usually only fans of the series in which this game originates will have any real enjoyment with the game.
5 and Below - These games basically "Fail". They have bugs that severely glitch, lag, or freeze the game. For all general purposes, these kinds of games don't tend to suceed on the market. Very poor gameplay, very poor storyline, and often very poorly coded.
are you kidding me?? what sites do you go on? where a ten is just "great"? most respectable sites only give tens to sheer perfection.
this is more what its like:
10- Perfection, rarely achieved.
9-Awesome
8-Great(hey that rhymes, yay?)
7-Good
6-Average
5 and below- poor.

you must be going to the really really nice rating sites that give games like halo 2 and GTA 10s all the time or something.

and plus i hate it when people won't buy a game because of its rating. believe it or not, theres probably like a 99% chance that the reviewer does not have the same tastes as you. Mario Kart 64 got a freaking 6.4 from gamespot, but yet i loved it anyway. my attitude is just screw ratings and play the freaking game, and i find them more enjoyable. i disagree with like 80% of ratings, cause i still like to play those lowly "7s" or "6s"

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Post by Rune Lai »

I played Shining Tears, which was panned with 6s and called a horrible, flawed game by a several reviewers (and yet the 6 would be above average if 5 was the true average game), so I'll play a 6 if I'm interested in it. I generally prefer to read what the reviewer thought or it and then measure it against the number score, since it tends to mitigate what the straight number could be interpreted as (since many people rate differently).

And just because a game was rated well or is even popular doesn't mean I'll like it or be interested in it (notable RPGs ignored in the past few years: Riviera, Tales of Symphonia, all the Xenosagas, etc.)

I remember when RPGamer switched from a 1-10 system to 1-5 stars it took a little getting used to, but I find their ratings more reliable now. With a 1-10 system a 7 can still be average. But with 1-5 only a 3 can be average. There's much less wiggle room.
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Post by drumlord »

Yeah, one should always read a review. The words should always tell a true story while a score has a plethora of problems, including interpretation as this thread has shown. But what a reviewer writes should be clear enough for you to determine if the game is for you. That's what I try to do when I review things. Many reviewers view reviewing as some kind of contest to show how much they know about what they are reviewing. For RPGs, this makes the reviews insanely long and boring. I try to just be clear enough about what I played/viewed that people can decide whether or not they want it.
-Rich-

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Post by Lunar Eclipse »

I love Shining Tears . . . I don't understand why it'd get bad scores. Maybe I'm just a sucker for the Shining series in general.

Anyway, yeah, I really do prefer 1-5 systems. That way, you know when a game is average. You know when it's below average. You know when it's a must-buy. You know when you shouldn't touch it. That likewise forces people to actually read the comments in order to see why it achieved the rating that it did. Nothing bothers me more than people spouting, "zomg liek 7??!111!one!1 i not gunna bie now"

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Post by Greensky »

I just read that review in my Nintendo Power yesterday. I was disspointed that a huge Lunar fan like that gave the game a 7 scoring. I'm honestly not expecting too much... but I'm still 100% getting it. I've waited so long for a new Lunar game.

The comment about how Dragon Song doesn't provide much story and doesn't open up more of the world of Lunar... that kind of got me down :(

It was awesome though to see the Dragon Song advertisement in Nintendo Power, with the http://www.lunardragonsong.com URL which leads right to Lunar-Net :D

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GhaleonOne
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Post by GhaleonOne »

Yes! The advertisements are out. Did you get the magazine via subscription or at newsstand? I need to go pick it up.
-G1

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Mormon88
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Post by Mormon88 »

o yea the advertisement campaign for this game is huge. its like all over gamespot and various other gaming sites. and a big poster at my local EB games...

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GhaleonOne
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Post by GhaleonOne »

Just curious, does the poster have the web address listed and such? I may have to take a drive up there and see if they can save that for me if mine has one.
-G1

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Post by Lupin the Third »

The Nintendo Power ad is a full-page ad on p. 23. Here's a description:

"Every legend begins with a journey..." at the top, a modified version of the US cover art for the background, the logo roughly centered vertically on the page, slid to the right. About 3/4 down the page is the http://WWW.LUNARDRAGONSONG.COM address, which is at the top-right corner of 5 stills from the game (they have merged both screens in each shot to make it look like each is one extra-tall screen grab).
At the bottom is "First fantasy RPG for your Nintendo DS."

Logos at the bottom are the ESRB 10+, Nintendo DS logo, Japan Arts Media, Game Arts, and UbiSoft.

I got mine in the mail, it might be up to a week before it really starts hitting newsstands. At least, that's how it's usually been. I got mine surprisingly early, NP usually shows up closer to the last of the month; I was fortunate to get it on ...the 20th, I think? It may be hitting shelves soon, or I just got mine super-early. I'd keep an eye out. Now that I know an EB poster exists, I may stop by there when I go to work tomorrow morning and see if they got one too.

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Post by Greensky »

Yeah, I have a subscription. Oddly enough though, my last issue never came, and this issue came way earlier than I usually get my issues... I mean, it IS the November issue. I usually wouldn't have gotten it until October.

And the Dragon Song posters... that's awesome. I want one :P

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Mormon88
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Post by Mormon88 »

GhaleonOne wrote:Just curious, does the poster have the web address listed and such? I may have to take a drive up there and see if they can save that for me if mine has one.
i don't remember... but i might be going down there again today, so if i do i'll check for ya.

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Apocalypse
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Post by Apocalypse »

There will likely be a bunch of reviews coming our for the game by Monday. The NP reviews are often inaccurate, so I'm pretty confident the game will get an overall good score. I'll probably end up getting it, but I have a feeling a few of you guys, who already know much of this series... might be a little disappointed with this one. :(

...well... that is, if NP's review that claimed it didn't open up more about the series, is correct.

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Post by Greensky »

People ALWAYS put down reviews, whether it be about games or movies. But I seriously think that reviews are VERY underrated. You guys should trust the proffesionals more often, because they're 80% correct about everything in most cases... at least according to my own personal view in what I've seen in the games/movies when they come out compared to the comments made about them in the reviews.

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Post by Lunar Eclipse »

Meh, I think I typically agree with reviews for things like fighting games, racing games, FPS, and, well, pretty much anything that's not a role-playing game. I always find that I like RPGs way more than the reviewers, mainly because I always enjoy little fantasy story-driven excursions. I've absolutely loved plenty of RPGs that've gotten 5's and 6's on sites, so I don't see why Lunar's 7 will be any different, especially given my love of the series.
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Post by Alunissage »

A score by itself is meaningless, because you don't know what the criteria are or how the reviewer's taste matches yours. A wordy review should at least discuss the aspects of the game which contributed to the score bot + and - so that the reader can determine whether the same things are as personally important as they are to the reviewer. Unfortunately, many people look only at the number and don't bother to analyze the review and get the real information. (And, of course, some reviews don't include the relevant information either.) When a game is reviewed by someone who isn't really interested in the genre, naturally they're coming from a totally different direction from someone who loves the genre would.

However, I do know Steve, the author of the NP review, in passing, and as far as I know he likes RPGs as much as anyone else. He's also the one who's written the last few Zelda guides, incidentally.

DS posters...I should definitely check that out. I haven't gotten a Lunar poster in a couple of years or so. :)

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