WTF is so bad about it?

For discussion of Lunar: Dragon Song (Lunar: Genesis), the only Lunar game on the DS
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Omega
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WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Omega » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:15 pm

Why does everybody hate Dragon Song?

It seems interesting from what i've seen through youtube videos.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Alunissage » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:49 pm

It's probably not accurate to say that everyone hates it. However, if you want to see what people think of it and why, there's a whole board here to read.

The two big problems were story and gameplay, which unfortunately cover pretty much the entire game. The original storyline was okay, if not great (bearing strong resemblance to the Lunar 1 storyline), but so much was cut during development that what was left was choppy and disconnected, and didn't fit well with the other games. More egregiously, many very strange decisions were made about gameplay that ended up hindering the player, such as not being able to select targets in battle and equipment breaking frequently and permanently. What could have been an OK game even with the cut-down story was made horribly tedious by the battles, which also suffered from very poor AI (artificial stupidity, I called it) and character balance, which tended to make the battles maximally long.

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Omega
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Omega » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:08 pm

Yikes... it's that bad?

I heard somewhere that a few guys were planning to clean it up.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Werefrog » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:43 pm

Yeah, they're on this board.

Edit: Here's the topic if you're interested: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2901&start=120

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:26 am

You forgot the part where the creators pull a George Luca$ and contradict the rules established for their own story and world. And for a series like Lunar, which was more than one continuity, to say that they contradict it so thoroughly that it does not fit under any circumstances: that's really, REALLY saying something.

Note: I am not bashing the Lunar series with my comments on it having more than one continuity.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Alunissage » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:33 am

I said what the two big problems were; I did not claim it to be comprehensive. However, little about the story actually contradicts established continuity, other than possibly the timeframes; the problem was more that the existing backstory could have been used and wasn't.

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:57 am

I didn't say what I said maliciously. I was just pointing out what seems to be what is one of the bigger beefs a lot of the fans I've spoken to seems to be.

I'd state exactly what is the contradiction, but I don't want to outright spoil the game's story if Omega hasn't looked it up yet.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Alunissage » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:13 am

Then say that, rather than tell me I "forgot" something when I did not. Although clearly you and I are not remembering the same thing, because I don't see it to be the case at all that it "[contradicted the rules] so thoroughly that it does not fit under any circumstances". If you want to avoid spoilers, by all means start another thread stating what you believe the contradictions to be and we can go from there.

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:01 am

Sorry. I wasn't trying to be insulting.

Well, as for the contradiction: let me say that I find the villain's entire concept rather difficult to buy. I doubt someone like him would ever have met the qualifications to land him 'that' position.
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Omega
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Omega » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:30 pm

Minor spoilers about the beginning are okay. I was going to play the game if i can ever get my hands on a DS.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Shaolina » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:46 pm

You guys are forgetting something: the characters. In Lunar 1 and 2 we get to connect with all of them in one way or another. You get a chance to see them shine. In Lunar DS it's all about Jian. Rufus gets like 3 lines before getting killed and they all sucked. XD Jian's too busy being a chauvinistic guy to let Flora or Gaby have some screen time to develop. Flora says even less than Rufus and her joining the team was so random. Kinda like "Sure, I have nothing better to do." and Poor gaby, she needed more attention. Also how dare they make Althena with pink hair... she looks nothing like Goddess Althena and Goddess Althena was before Lunar existed so that's what she's supposed to look when she grows up.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Kizyr » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:54 pm

Shaolina wrote:Jian's too busy being a chauvinistic guy to let Flora or Gaby have some screen time to develop.


You know I was thinking the same thing through all of Jian's more irritating moments. Character flaws are one thing, but this one was getting a little redundant. Then again, Jian was the only one whose attacks were worth anything anyhow, so he might've had a point. Hell he even made Rufus redundant (for the three battles he joined you for).

Shaolina wrote:Flora says even less than Rufus and her joining the team was so random. Kinda like "Sure, I have nothing better to do."


More than that, Jian picking her to join him was completely random. "I'm in a dangerous part of the world that I'm completely unfamiliar with. Hey, why don't I pick an 11-year old girl as my guide through the canyon!" Yeah, totally makes sense. KF

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:33 pm

Kizyr wrote:
Shaolina wrote:More than that, Jian picking her to join him was completely random. "I'm in a dangerous part of the world that I'm completely unfamiliar with. Hey, why don't I pick an 11-year old girl as my guide through the canyon!" Yeah, totally makes sense. KF


Since we're talking about a game made in Japan, it'd be said "pick a loli" :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Omega
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Omega » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:32 am

:evil: you're worse than my brother sometimes.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Angelalex242 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:04 pm

Well, from my research...

Gaby isn't useful till she has that 1/3 mp cost accessory. Then she can actually do something useful. Like, using her beast skill every fight.

Flora...never becomes useful. Oh, sure, there's healing now and then, but healing doesn't happen THAT often. The 3 shot bow is a better weapon then the crystal bow, because multiple attacks KIND of makes her slightly less useless. But ah well.

At the point in the game where Jian was being an ass, you don't have either of those two things yet. Hence, Kizyr's right.
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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Kewl » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:33 pm

SPOILER ALERT!!!!

As what I have seen on youtube, the ending was so bad for me.. There is no super boss! You can't fight Ignatius in the ending. And the thing I hated most was their contradiction to lunar sssc that Althena did love twice which is very confusing to the lunar series. These are the things I hated about the dragon song... At first I really want a ds than a PSP because of the dragon song but it changed my mind because of the ending and now I'm satisfied with my PSP. :D

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Bravo 29 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:32 am

Yes, the ending is horrific. All I can say is if Alex or Hiro were that boneheaded, LUNAR would've ceased to exist.

However, in an old interview with Game Arts, wish I could remember who is was with exactly, it was suggested that they might bring Ignatius back for another game. Considering the ending for Dragon Song, it would be just perfect. Because Jian didn't finish the job, the Magic Empire was born, so he must destroy Ignatius in order to save face, let alone LUNAR. That would be poetic justice. Ah well, one can always hope.

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Kewl » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:48 am

OOOOHHHH.. Is that so... Making a part 2... I think it will be a waste of money for the gamers... They should make a beautiful ending in first part. So that they could make a part 2 of it and many gamers will surely buy it!! Like Lunar SSSC it has a very wonderful ending... And they will earn a lot of MONEY!!!

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Kizyr » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:23 pm

Like many other things in the game, that ending could have worked if they had fleshed it out with enough back story. As it is, the bare-bones story that they left Lunar: DS with, combined with attempting a more unique ending, ended up just leaving the player feel like it was incomplete.

I raised this exact same concern when I first read through the storyboard. Unfortunately, there was virtually no expansion in the game of any of the elements of the storyboard, hence why I usually describe Lunar: DS as being very "skeletal"--it has the framework there, but nothing to fill in the gaps.

The fact that the uniqueness of the ending was a bad thing instead of good I think highlights this fact. KF

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Re: WTF is so bad about it?

Postby Alunissage » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:42 am

That's pretty much the case with everything in the game, or at least a great deal of it... lots of unique features that ended up being liabilities instead of assets. The two modes of battle, the timed area-clearing with reward of blue chest and partial healing, the card effects, the delivery service for gaining money, even the airborne enemies being above the ground-level enemies until the latter were taken out. All of those things could have been decent, but the way they were implemented they worked against each other instead of together. (I can't think of any way that not being able to target enemies would be a good thing, though.) The cards or similar items could have been tied to successful deliveries, for example.

Oh well.


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