People living on the blue star?

For discussion of Lunar: Dragon Song (Lunar: Genesis), the only Lunar game on the DS
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Sadrin
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People living on the blue star?

Postby Sadrin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:48 pm

I'm playing through the end of DS and stopped by Perit Village for project reasons and I found something kinda neat? It might just be a typo...? Talking to Mae within Mose's house she says...
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So do the people of Lunar think people are still on the blue star? Maybe I just missed something while playing any of the games? If so, I'm sorry for the post.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Kizyr » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:40 am

Sadrin wrote:So do the people of Lunar think people are still on the blue star? Maybe I just missed something while playing any of the games? If so, I'm sorry for the post.

Huh, maybe. I wonder what the original Japanese dialogue said for that part?

What town and place was this?

EDIT: Sorry, missed that you already said what town and place this was. When in the game did you talk to her? KF

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Alunissage » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:24 am

My guess is that it's either a typo (for "lived") or that "dream" is more like a daydream and it's more of a fairy-tale sense. You know, like "east of the Sun and west of the Moon".

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby LunarRaptor » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:20 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually what the message was supposed to say, considering how Lunar DS likes to contradict established Lunar canon...and in a series with a few different canons, that's really saying something.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Alunissage » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:09 pm

I still haven't played more than a third of Dragon Song in English, but I have yet to hear of any specific contradictions that don't revolve around the rather arbitrary time periods.

Also, note that there's a book in SSSC that refers to a girl being left on the Blue Star. If that bit of information lasted that long, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to "people".

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Angelalex242 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:11 pm

I think she's simply ignorant.

There's only ONE being living on the Blue Star <3

And she's snoozing in a Crystal.

All surviving mortals were taken by Althena to live on Lunar. The rest wouldn't have survived the Nuclear Winter of Althena's Light.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:11 am

I was talking more in the sense about how the hell someone like Ignitus(sp?) becomes a Dragonmaster, when all aprricant's character is so thoroughly tested by the journey to become one. Or why the Beastmen are the ones in charge with the humans being the lower order when the other Lunar games give one a sense that it was the Beastmen who were the ones that were persecuted against in the past.
Then again, the latter could have shifted several times before Hell Mel and his wife finally dissolved it with their marriage, buy there's still no accounting for the former.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Alunissage » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:22 am

There's no contradiction in the Beastmen being dominant in the time of Dragon Song. It actually fits in fairly well with the other games, as there's more of an implication of beastmen and humans being separate societies which are integrating before and during Lunar 1. I believe Magic School conveys this separation, although I haven't gone through any form of the story recently. It is hardly an isolated instance of a formerly dominant group losing power, either; the same is true of the Vile Tribe (Magic Race, Mazoku), as told in the Vheen manga and suggested elsewhere. They were dominant; they lost a war to the humans; they were eventually integrated into human society.

Again, the point with Dragon Song is that it takes place long before Lunar 1, when conventions in the latter were not yet established. Humans can't even use magic yet in Dragon Song; that doesn't mean it contradicts the other games. The Dragon Trials are clearly different -- and this may be why Ignatius managed to get past them. The first Dragonmaster helped prepare Lunar for habitation; clearly that's a much different job from what Dyne's was. Reading hearts may not be something that comes naturally to the dragons, either; note how Quark had no clue that Ghaleon was about to zap him.

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Angelalex242 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:21 am

Notice too, in Dragon Song, that humans are much more dependent on Althena.

You can't even level up without praying to her. (Althena's conduct mode). That's some pretty significant dependence. Of course, Beastmen are just as dependent on the goddess. They have to pray too if they want to level up.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:46 am

I know that much about changes in who has power in society. That's why I added that bit about humand beastman domination changing. My initial point was that I was always under the impression that the beastmen were the ones to receive more persecution throughout the history of Lunar than the humans when talk of past discrimination comes up in the previous Lunar games.

As for Ignatius and heart reading. I think its fairly apparent that heart reading doesn't come naturally to dragons. I believe Alex had to open himself up to Quark before the dragon could do any reading. Ghaleon kept his heart closed to everyone.
That still leaves the question about how the hell the four dragons didn't pick up any sign that something was wrong with Iggy. They aren't stupid and this isn't just any position, regardless of what the what role Dragonmaster needed to fulfill at the time. These are the four sacred dragon's powers, second only to the goddess's that we're talking about here! Just what made them thnk Ignatius was qualified for the position of Dragonmaster? What made him so great once upon a time?
I suppose he could be a Darh Vader deal where he was good once, but then turned bad...I'd sure like some story to go with that. That would also be straying back into Ghaleon territory.
Thinking about it, we have more of a story for Zophar than we do for Iggy, and Zophar's about as stereotypically "twists his handlebar mustache with his fingers" evil as they come!
Last edited by LunarRaptor on Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby swordandshield » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:22 am

Who is Ignatius? I only played Lunar SSSC and EBC...its obvious hes in Dragon Song but is it a prequel or a sequel?

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Angelalex242 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:00 pm

Ignatius is a spoiler. We'll comment if you want the spoiler.
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby swordandshield » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:22 am

Well seeing as I have not even played the game and not sure when I will (if ever)...I dont care about the spoilers ruining anything for me, tell me.

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby ShindoW » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:15 am

Sadrin, nice to see a fellow Ayumi Hamasaki fan.

It is hardly an isolated instance of a formerly dominant group losing power

This reminded me of Chrono Cross, how that little town from Trigger came into power. I know it has to do with different timelines and all that, but I see fans debate it alot. For the record, I loved Cross way more. -huggles small Lynx collection-

Do we know anything about the Dragonmasters officially (as in stated in the Japanese game or texts) aside the few from the games?
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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Silver Phoenix » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:20 am

The only main criteria for Dragonmaster is to become the protector of Althena, and pass the dragon trials. In essence, this could mean any number of ways to actually pass the trials or merely falsify your role as a Dragonmaster.

The Dragonmasters of the past have barely a mention other than their names, or something significant about them in books or literature. I don't know what details are provided in the manga or novels/novellas.

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Kizyr » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:25 am

ShindoW wrote:Do we know anything about the Dragonmasters officially (as in stated in the Japanese game or texts) aside the few from the games?

There're a few scattered things in the novels as well.

From the books:
SSS Vol. 1 wrote:Laike has been traveling so long that he's lost track of time. In fact, he recalls one village where he met a family with a baby; the next time he returned, the baby had already grown into a young boy, who was similar in spirit to Dragonmaster Terius—the Dragonmaster who once journeyed to the Frozen Capital. [note: no other information besides this aside is given on Terius.]

SSS Vol. 3 wrote:[38] The Silver Spire, the Crystal Spire, and the Magic Guild. These places were at the heart of many bards' tales that Alex was familiar with. The legendary Dragonmaster Lady Chloe [kuroe], a beastwoman, together with the Premier of the Magic Guild Miruka [miruka], and the Priest of Althena Jevron [jevuron], sealed away a "great darkness" in the Silver Spire. And another time, Cyclone Zeon [zeon] took Milenia [mireenia] and ascended the spiral staircase inside the Crystal Spire. Much later, the Gold and Silver Sisters Alicia and Laticia [arishia, rixina] each climbed to the top of the Silver and Crystal Spires.

There were so many legends about Vane, and now Alex could see the buildings and places he's only heard about in those legends before his very eyes. Luna, though, feels a bit strange, but can't quite figure out why.

[41] Nash continues his explanation about Vane. Across from the Magic Guild are the Magic Library and the Magic School. There is also a large plaza at the center of Vane. The plaza is where many of Vane's ceremonies and rituals take place. For instance, the plaza is where Dragonmaster Nike [nike] once--

Alex continues the story: where the Four Dragons were once gathered to appoint the new Dragonmaster. Dragonmaster Nike was the one who took all Four Dragons' trials at once, in that plaza.

SSS Vol. 3 wrote:[175] The statue glowed, and the door opened. As they entered, Alex recalled what he knew about the towers. Now, the Crystal Spire, much was said about it in the stories of the old Dragonmasters. It's said that the the spire has been the subject of bards' tales since the days when Vane was first founded. It's where Cyclone Zeon saved Milenia, for instance. But, by comparison, very little has been said about the Silver Spire. During the adventures of Dragonmaster Chloe, the Silver Spire is mentioned, yet nothing is said of what lies inside the tower.

Lemina Novel wrote:This was not the first time a group of "heroes" had come to the Guild, claiming to be on a quest to save the world--and, inevitably, seeking out the help of the Ausas with rare, powerful, and presumably free magic items. If every single costumed group coming to their doorstep were telling the truth, Lemina added, then that would mean there were now: 5 Dragonmasters, 8 groups of four heroes, dragons in every color from red, yellow, green, purple, gold, silver, and fifteen more, 6 destroyers, 3 new Magic Emperors, 9 evil dragons, 30 villages and 14 towns that had been burned to the ground, and 4 times that Lunar would have been destroyed by now.


From the Games:
SSS (Japanese), Vane Library wrote:'Cyclone Zeon [zeon], Iron Fist Loka [roka], the Gold and Silver Twins: Alicia [arishia] and Lina [rixina], the Singing Swordsman Southern Natto [sazaan'natto], and so on and so on... The tales of the Dragonmasters are many and still being told...'

SSS (English), Vane Library wrote:'Name any Dragonmaster and you can hear a hundred different tales of their incredible adventures. Leon, the Mighty Gale, who fought his foes with the blinding force of a hurricane... Gaull, the Iron Hand, who could fell the largest man with a single swing of his granite fists... Alicia and Laticia, twin sisters who proved that two is better than one... Natto, the Singing Swordsman, who often burst into song while decimating his enemies...'

SSS (Japanese), Blue Dragon wrote:"Ah, sorry, sorry. That doesn't concern you. I talk too much [lit. kuchi ga karui] so I sometimes speak before thinking. Loka and Lina used to say that all the time."

SSS (English), Blue Dragon wrote:"Guh... sorry! I'm just rambling about things you wouldn't care anything about. I've always talked too much. Secrets were not my forte... Alicia and Laticia always joked that I should be called the Blabbing Blue Dragon..."

EBC (English), Vane Library wrote:History of the Dragonmasters | The first Dragonmaster, Louie, descended to this land from the Blue Star with the Goddess. The footprint of his very first step on Lunar can still be found somewhere in this world...

EBC (Japanese), Vane Library wrote:History of the Dragonmasters | Together with the Goddess Althena, the one who came from the Blue Star to this world, was the first, Dragonmaster Louie [rui]. His first step is left somewhere on this world..."

EBC (English), Vane Library wrote:Famous Dragonmasters | Some of the most popular Dragonmasters in the history of our world include: Leon, the Mighty Gale, who fought his foes with the blinding force of a hurricane. Gaull, the Iron Hand, who could fell the largest man with a single swing of his granite fists. Natto, the Singing Swordsman, who often burst into song while decimating his enemies. Dyne, the hero of the Heresy War... and Alex, the last of the Dragonmasters.

EBC (Japanese), Vane Library wrote:Heroes, Dragonmasters | Some of the most popular Dragonmasters in history are Cyclone Zeon [shippuu zeon], Iron Fist Loka [tekken roka]... the Gold and Silver Sisters Alicia and Lina [arishia, rixina], one of the Four Heroes of the Battle of the Black Dragon, Dyne [kokuryuu sen'eki no yon'eiyuu dain], and... the last Dragonmaster Alex [aresu]..."

EB (English), Vane Library wrote:The most popular Dragonmasters in history were: 'Cyclone' Zeon, 'Iron Fist' Loka, Dyne, and the last Dragonmaster... Alex.

EB (Japanese), Vane Library wrote:Heroes and Dragonmasters | Among the Dragonmasters of history stand out a few of notable popularity. Cyclone Zeon, Iron Fist Loka... the Gold and Silver Sisters Asty and Liza, one of the Four Heroes who fought the Black Dragon, Dyne, and... the last Dragonmaster, Alex...

EB (English), Vane Library wrote:Basic Magic Volume 3, Killing Barney Made Easy

EB (Japanese), Vane Library wrote:"History of Dragonmasters | Together with the Goddess Althena, the first Dragonmaster came to this land from the Blue Star, Dragonmaster Louie. His first step is still left somewhere on this land..."


Hm, I don't think I've ever searched through all my resources for that before. KF

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Silver Phoenix » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:00 am

EBC (English), Vane Library wrote:
History of the Dragonmasters | The first Dragonmaster, Louie, descended to this land from the Blue Star with the Goddess. The footprint of his very first step on Lunar can still be found somewhere in this world...


In one of the games the name was Neil, not Louie. I know for a fact that in either the original games or the remakes one of the Dragonmasters was named Neil. It must have been changed later, because it was obviously a reference to Neil Armstrong landing on the moon.

I remember this because of my name, even though they used the actual spelling for Neil Armstrong. Maybe it was only in one of the US games by WD or Ubisoft. For all I know it could have been in Lunar Legend.

With all of these past Dragonsmasters, both male and female it makes no sense why they would completely derail in Dragon Song and make Jian a Dragonmaster. Or whatever he was supposed to be. A prequel with the twin Dragonmasterettes Alicia and Latishia (or Lina, wtf?) or Lady Chloe (Kuroe) would be a new spin on things.

I also think it's interesting how Millennia ends up as a character in Grandia 2.

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Alunissage » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:10 am

Silver Phoenix wrote:In one of the games the name was Neil, not Louie. I know for a fact that in either the original games or the remakes one of the Dragonmasters was named Neil. It must have been changed later, because it was obviously a reference to Neil Armstrong landing on the moon.

No. It's always Lui / Louie. You're thinking of the interview with Ryousirow Hasukawa, who mentions that the first Dragonmaster was named Neil, and his arm was very strong. It's on the main site.

I was actually pretty shocked to find that EB really does say Lui rather than Neil. I had always assumed it was WD who had gotten the wrong Armstrong.

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Kizyr » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:22 am

Silver Phoenix wrote:In one of the games the name was Neil, not Louie. I know for a fact that in either the original games or the remakes one of the Dragonmasters was named Neil. It must have been changed later, because it was obviously a reference to Neil Armstrong landing on the moon.

There was never any reference to a Dragonmaster named Neil in any of the games, Japanese or English (including all the handhelds). Alunissage is probably right that you're thinking of that interview.

Silver Phoenix wrote:With all of these past Dragonsmasters, both male and female it makes no sense why they would completely derail in Dragon Song and make Jian a Dragonmaster. Or whatever he was supposed to be. A prequel with the twin Dragonmasterettes Alicia and Latishia (or Lina, wtf?) or Lady Chloe (Kuroe) would be a new spin on things.

Alicia/Laticia's names were changed about between the originals and remakes, and between the English and Japanese versions. Anyway, yeah, all those Dragonmasters seemed put in for flavor. Kind of like how Europe had old stories about kings and knights, Japan about samurai and nobles, etc. KF

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Re: People living on the blue star?

Postby Silver Phoenix » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:54 am

I have Lunar dementia, it's time for me to die. I could have sworn it ended up in one of the games, but it must have been the interview stuck in my subconcious.


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