3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

For discussion of Lunar: Dragon Song (Lunar: Genesis), the only Lunar game on the DS
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Nitemares
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3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Nitemares » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:19 pm

i thought the game overall was pretty fun, it was different.

but what took away from a lot of fun that i have learned to like is a dragon who's with you on the whole journey like Nall & Ruby. they should have had a mini black dragon or blue dragon, VERY disappointing in my book.

the other thing that i was disappointed that the final boss was the 3rd form of Gideon, but not before you had to fight him 2 times. so you didn't even get to fight Ignatius at all in the whole game which i found was just dumb. why even have him as the head of the vile tribe and kidnap lucia collins in this game if you can't even fight him. :roll:

oh yeah also, the ending was horrible.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Kizyr » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:33 pm

This is the first list of dislikes purely story-related that someone's put together about Dragon Song. For most people, the gameplay problems (severe ones, mind you) eclipsed the story ones, or at least get mentioned alongside them.

That being said, my main disappointment was a more overarching one, that the game's story was so bare-bones that there was little to no substance. The dialogue as a consequence fell flat, and you ended up not caring whatsoever about the characters.

In an odd way, it's still a little bit fun. Simplistic and not something I'd care to play again (except for being the keeper of knowledge, so I have to still scour it for information), but still not so terrible.

The music was even pretty nice. KF

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby ilovemyguitar » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:08 am

Yeah, Dragon Song is an alright game, it just doesn't live up to the Lunar name. It has so many little things wrong with it that it adds up to being just a ho-hum sort of game, which is probably even worse than it being flat-out bad. And not only that, the fact that the bare bones story hinted at something that had the potential to be something really awesome is incredibly frustrating. I still maintain that Jian's character arc, had it been properly fleshed out, would have easily stood among those of other beloved Lunar characters like Ghaleon and Lucia; his journey of learning how to trust other people is an excellent extension of Lunar's overarching message of the power of humanity.
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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:29 am

Not a damn thing stands out as very good in Dragon Song. The music was okay but extremely substandard compared to the other games. The two modes for fighting sucked, not being able to pick who you attacked sucked, two other characters not even equaling to one of the main character sucked, spelling errors that affecting a gameplay facet that would have been mundane as hell without the typos sucked and breakable equipment really pissed me off.

YOU ALSO COULDN'T READ BOOKSHELVES, DAMNIT! I only beat it to know all of the substandard story. I could never replay this game.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby GhaleonOne » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:42 am

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:YOU ALSO COULDN'T READ BOOKSHELVES, DAMNIT!


Damn straight! That was sorely lacked in Legend too. When UbiSoft used us as the official site, I recommended that VERY early on. I really don't know where that game went wrong. It had a wonderful original basis for a story. And here's one for the kiddies: Vane was nixed from the game. I think I've said it here before, and I know I pushed that based on the story stuff they game me for the site, yet when the game game out... no Vane. What the hell? The game takes place 1000 years before Lunar 1. Lunar 1 states that Vane rose to the sky then from Althena's tears (a great Flood?). I know I always theorized that maybe they would end the game with that, but as it stands, Vane had to be born and go flying within a year of the end of DS for that not to be a contradiction from Lunar 1. But then, I'm sure that's not the only contradiction that ended up from DS.
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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby ilovemyguitar » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:58 am

G1 wrote:And here's one for the kiddies: Vane was nixed from the game. I think I've said it here before, and I know I pushed that based on the story stuff they game me for the site, yet when the game game out... no Vane. What the hell? The game takes place 1000 years before Lunar 1. Lunar 1 states that Vane rose to the sky then from Althena's tears (a great Flood?).


Oh yeah, poor Vane. What's interesting is that you can see so plainly in the game where Vane was going to go. The giant statue in the Cathedral was obviously intended to be the same giant statue in Sub-Vane in Legend, and the land mass the Cathedral is located on is circular; clearly that would have been Vane.

I've also since seen info on the interesting stuff that was originally planned to go into the game; Ausas, carnival-themed cities, primitive tribes... It's enough to make your head spin at how awesome this game could have been.
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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Nitemares » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:11 pm

i think that they put too much into the format for the ds and didn't do too much for story. it's great to have and play through once to get the story, but that's about it. i don't think it's really 1000 years, i think it's an average, give or take a few dozen years, just my opinion.

it would have been awesome to see the construction of vane in the sky or at least vane under construction on the ground, even if you didn't see it rise, like i said, no room probably cause of the ds functions and the switch between earning levels and getting items, which i also found just annoying, cause you had to go through everything almost twice.

still the biggest dissapointment to me was no baby blue or black dragon, am i the only one that wished they had it like the lunar series? what also made the other 2 great is the humor between the dragons and the party and people in towns.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Aaron » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:51 pm

Only 3 things that were disappointing about DS? hah!

Someone should just compile a list of all the complaints anyone has ever had about DS. I'm sure it would fill the page.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:20 pm

That would be pretty boring. There's been far more than enough talk about all of the gameplay issues; it's refreshing to see discussion of the story aspect.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Jenner » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:59 am

They could have named this game anything else but Lunar: Anything and it would have just been a mediocre, crappy, DS: RPG and no one would have been the wiser.

Instead, they named it Lunar: Anything and cashed in on a beloved franchise to bleed out money from the fans. You have to admit, a game of this sucktasticness would have never sold as many copies as it did if it didn't have Lunar: in the title.

I guess I'm just /raging in general because they've been doing this a lot lately.

They did it to Prince of Persia, they did it to Tomb Raider, they did it to Banjo Kazooey, they did it to Sonic.

Lunar was like... my last bastion of hope in an otherwise dark miasma of toxic fan-raping sequels.

Kiz and G1 tried to defend it for us, they tried to make it good, they did there best...

And now, we get another remake.

The remake after remake should have bee the first indicator of what my beloved franchise has become. A moneycow. I pray the remake will start it back up, will get interest, will bring more fans to the series, will start something. But we've been hoping that since they announced Lunar: Legend, and while it has brought new members to the forums and spread Lunar to everyone. Each remake and recreation has become more saturated and diluted than the next. These new members do not know what Lunar was like in it's purest form. They will never know True Greatness, or something.

At this point, I've lost all hope. I'll remember Lunar as what it was, as what it was meant to be. I have no hope that the new Lunar will be nothing more then more cashing in on the fans. I'll pray for the alternative, but I'm a realistic person

I know better.

Rest In Peace, Lunar.

/sob.
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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Sonix » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:56 pm

Am I the only one that actualy liked this game?

By no means is good compared to other Lunars or average RPG's, but I still enjoyed playing it. It has some flaws, but some are easily put aside (except for no targeting and exp/money thing... and maybe running = draining your health). The story and characters were rather simple, and its all right for a game, but bad for Lunar.
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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby PottleElf » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:13 am

I found it in a bargain bin for ten bucks. I tried playing it, but somewhere after Jian gets his groove back I just couldn't bring myself to care anymore. The good thing, though, is that the game was so ridiculously easy that you could basically ignore all the fetch-quests, run from all the enemies, forget upgrading your weapons, and just spend maybe 10 minutes leveling a little bit at the end to beat it. I don't even remember what happened (something about killing dragons and a dragonmaster) but it didn't take that long to finish.

Uh... I don't really think that's the mark of a good game though.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Silver Phoenix » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:16 am

Game Arts had their heads up their asses while developing this game, and the quality is to blame solely on their stupid choices. Boobiesoft just half-assed the localization and wanted to make a buck, and the fanbase got left out in the cold from both companies.

Now, three things wrong with this game....

1. Lunar
2. Dragon
3. Song

-The End

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Justinzero » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:51 pm

I liked some of the locals, and seeing how stuff was thousands of years in the past. I was also a fan of the music, and character art, but that's about it. The gameplay was unacceptable, boring, and totally redundant. You only needed, and basically relied on Jian, plus the whole game was spent holding the shoulder buttons down, because the battles were so.....damn.....slow....

I don't remember the story much, but my current impressions are that it was really recycled from older Lunar and JRPG content. I have the same opinion of the characters too. I did play through the entire game though, and was mildly entertained, and slowly motivated to finish the title because of its history. Still, I'm really bitter that after all these years, that was the direction the series took.

All I can say is thank god for HSS!

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Alunissage » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:19 pm

Justinzero wrote:I don't remember the story much, but my current impressions are that it was really recycled from older Lunar and JRPG content. I have the same opinion of the characters too. [...]

All I can say is thank god for HSS!

Yep, thank goodness HSS isn't recycled from older Lunar content! Even that new stuff is completely original!

If you thought the US one was slow with having to hold the shoulder buttons, imagine how fun it was playing the import, which didn't have that.

As I've said before, there really were a lot of interesting ideas in Genesis/Dragon Song. Given about another year of development it could have been very good. But clearly the rush to put out the first RPG for the DS -- on both sides of the pond -- overrode all other considerations.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Justinzero » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:02 am

Alunissage wrote:Yep, thank goodness HSS isn't recycled from older Lunar content! Even that new stuff is completely original!


Yeah, but HSS is a remake, so its expected to see rehashes of old content. Lunar DS was a whole new game, yet had a plot which at first glance has little difference from Lunar 1. Hell, they even went as far to be so original with the female protagonists name! Lucia, wow, didn't see that coming. It took them that long to come up with that one? All that time, waiting, pondering, wondering, and that is what they came up with?

As I've said before, there really were a lot of interesting ideas in Genesis/Dragon Song. Given about another year of development it could have been very good. But clearly the rush to put out the first RPG for the DS -- on both sides of the pond -- overrode all other considerations.


Yeah, it sure did, and I really can't figure out why it didn't stay in the shop for a little longer. Even a friggin' demo would have been nice, because then feedback would have at least helped to a certain degree. I mean, what the hell was wrong with the testers, or even with initial feedback from review builds?

Loosing HP while running, having to hold 2 buttons to put the battle speed where it should have been, forcing me to use one good character while having 2 useless puppets in battles, having to grind away for EXP and ITEMS separately, and having been disappointed over the lack in plot improvement, is just a few reasons why I don't like the game. The entire game is fundamentally a waste of time. You have to grind twice to achieve what should be done in one battle. You have to pay attention to how much you run, which forces you to move at half the speed when HP is low. You have to wait while watching other characters take useless turns, when you only need to use the main one.

Its got great potential, which is why I'm so bitter about it. It has the markings of a good game, but they are too hard to enjoy over the blatantly stupid development ideas.

Dual screen battles were cool, and so were the cards. The character designs were great, but they were used in the wrong setting. The game really shows that Game Arts doesn't have the right direction in mind for the series, which is really sad. Japan Art Media did an alright job with Lunar Legend, but after what happened with Lunar DS, I'm not surprised to see Game Arts back in the development chair. I'm not surprised that we're seeing a remake of Lunar again. The series still has a good name, and there are still fans willing to shell cash out. Still, I'm afraid that without Studio Alex behind the wheel, were pretty much going to only see remakes of old content, and after playing through Lunar DS, I'm more than fine with that.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Shiva Indis » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:34 am

The developers behind each game since 1996, since it took me years to sort it out myself:

Silver Star Story: Game Arts/JAM
Magic School: Game Arts/Studio Alex
Lunar 2 remake: Game Arts/Vanguard Works
Lunar Legend: Game Arts/Media Ring
Lunar DS: Game Arts/JAM
Lunar Harmony: Game Arts/JAM

BTW, Game Arts bankrupted Studio Alex. SA sued GA over rights to Lunar, and GA counter-sued them out of existence. Last I checked, the founder of SA worked for Gainax.
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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Kizyr » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:14 pm

Justinzero wrote:Hell, they even went as far to be so original with the female protagonists name! Lucia, wow, didn't see that coming. It took them that long to come up with that one? All that time, waiting, pondering, wondering, and that is what they came up with?

Sheesh I already said I'm sorry! {;;} I thought the similarity was supposed to be intentional! Everyone makes mistakes... {..}

I mean, what the hell was wrong with the testers, or even with initial feedback from review builds?

Simple answer: they didn't have any. Well, actually two answers: they didn't have many, and they didn't seem interested in getting a lot of feedback and/or they used testers too late in the process to really matter.

Loosing HP while running, having to hold 2 buttons to put the battle speed where it should have been, forcing me to use one good character while having 2 useless puppets in battles, having to grind away for EXP and ITEMS separately, and having been disappointed over the lack in plot improvement, is just a few reasons why I don't like the game.

And speeding up battles was absent entirely in the Japanese game, so imagine how bad that was. I would also add the complete uselessness of magic for most of the game. Only Gaby and Jian had attack magic, they used up way too much MP each time, and you couldn't even buy MP restoration items. (You could use the right cards to get around that, though.)

Weirdly enough, I still maintain that it wasn't an awful game. But when you can sum up my thoughts on it with "it won't kill you to play it", it doesn't really speak that well of it.

Its got great potential, which is why I'm so bitter about it. It has the markings of a good game, but they are too hard to enjoy over the blatantly stupid development ideas.

This 100%. KF

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Justinzero » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:45 pm

I forgot to mention how much I enjoy the soundtrack though. To be fair, I think its the best part of the game for sure. If I can snag an Action Replay card, I'll beef up and burn through the game again one day. As it stands now, I just don't have the patience.

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Re: 3 Things That Was Disappointing About Dragon Song

Postby Alunissage » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:24 am

Justinzero wrote:Hell, they even went as far to be so original with the female protagonists name! Lucia, wow, didn't see that coming. It took them that long to come up with that one? All that time, waiting, pondering, wondering, and that is what they came up with?

The two names are NOT identical in Japanese. The director said he hadn't even noticed the similarity until an American interviewer asked him about it.

having to hold 2 buttons to put the battle speed where it should have been

You've already been told that that's the US version only, which is what I was saying before. You can thank Ubi for that... however, some of the animations do look rather silly sped up like that. Having put 77 hours into the Japanese game, the battle speed isn't high on my list of quibbles.

Besides adding the speeding up buttons, the other thing Ubi did that was helpful was making Althena's hair blue in the opening. If you think the name Lucia was a spoiler, think what showing Althena with pink hair was like in the very first screen.

Still, I'm not sure there's much point in rehashing AGAIN everything that was wrong with it. What made this thread interesting in the first place was that it addressed different aspects of the game, not the lengthy list of gameplay issues that we're all too familiar with.


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