Jian mentioned in earlier games (specifically EBC)?

Dragonmaster Lou · Post by **Dragonmaster Lou** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:25 pm

Okay, I'm putting this in a spoiler tag, since the DS part of it is a spoiler...

[spoiler]Anyway, if memory serves me correctly, there was a book in the Vane library that discussed the Dragonmasters of the past. One of them was a Dragonmaster "Iron Fist." Now, am I the only one who thinks that Jian was perhaps this Dragonmaster "Iron Fist." I mean, seeing as how (at least with how far I've gotten into the game so far -- the Red and White Dragon Caves) he fights with his feet and fists as opposed to a sword, it certainly does seem to fit him, no?[/spoiler]

ljonesj · Post by **ljonesj** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:30 pm

you could be right

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:38 pm

Nah. It's not him.

DS was made long after EBC, so sadly, there could be no reference to him in the future.

Dragonmaster Lou · Post by **Dragonmaster Lou** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:43 pm

Yeah, yeah, yeah, technically I suppose you're right... However...

[spoiler]While it's true that when EB/EBC was being made, the developers never even figured they'd make DS, it doesn't rule out another possibility -- that while working on DS, they decided to look at the previous Dragonmasters mentioned in EB/EBC and come up with his story. Hence how it's possible that Jian is "Iron Fist," even though Jian didn't exist yet when they first put "Iron Fist" in the library.

I'm just a big fan of continuity, even though it's not always perfect.[/spoiler]

DaWrestla · Post by **DaWrestla** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:44 pm

Sure there could. The DS developers could have looked at the list of dragonmasters already mentioned in SSSC and/or EBC and created Jian from one of them. Maybe Dragonmast Iron Fist? I'm not saying it's probably, but it is possible.

MiaOne · Post by **MiaOne** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:47 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:Nah. It's not him.

DS was made long after EBC, so sadly, there could be no reference to him in the future.

Who died and made you an expert on all things Lunar? It COULD be a referance to Jian. Do you think that the developers of Lunar completely ignore the other two Lunar stories? No. They could of had an idea for Jian long, long ago or maybe the text in Vane where it says "Iron Fist" gave them the idea for Jian to fight with his fists. I mean it's totally possible.

Sorry...I posted this as the two people before me were posting theirs so I don't mean to sound repetitive. But, yea, I agree with them.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:38 pm

I'm not an expert. I just have a long memory and an ability to cite sources.

Anyways, it's /Gaull/ the Iron Fist...

And how you get Jian from Gaull is beyond me.

If they'd made a reference to Jian, it'd be something like:
Jian, the flying feet of fury...

Werefrog · Post by **Werefrog** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:22 pm

Well, it could just be that it was translated oddly in either EBC or DS. I remember all of the name changes between Arc the Lad Collecton and Twilight of the Spirits. There were a ton. Some of them were really close to their names in ATLC while others were completely different.

[spoiler]But I honestly don't think that Dragon Master is Jian, but I could always be wrong.[/spoiler]

MiaOne · Post by **MiaOne** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:38 pm

Well, I was just saying don't be so definite because you never know...they could of changed the name from Gaul to Jian or maybe there was no inspiration from Gaul placed on Jian. But, there is a POSSIBILY

Post by **Kizyr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:24 am

Angelalex242 wrote:I'm not an expert. I just have a long memory and an ability to cite sources.

Anyways, it's /Gaull/ the Iron Fist...

Correction. It's "Iron Fist Loka", mentioned at the very least in both TSS and the SSS novels. There were other Dragonmasters mentioned in SSS that weren't in the original, however; Gaull might be one, but he didn't have the "Iron Fist" appellation. KF

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:41 am

I speak not for sources I do not have.

That said, it's time for some exact quotes from the sources I do have.

EBC only:
The first Dragonmaster, Louie, descended to this land from the Blue Star with the Goddess. The footprint of his very first step can still be found somewhere in this world...

SSSC and EBC...these are identical:
Leon, the Mighty Gale, who fought his foes with the blinding force of a hurricane.
Gaull, the Iron Hand, who could fell the largest man with a single swing of his granite fists.
Natto, the Singing Swordsman, who often burst into song while decimating his enemies.

SSSC only:
Alicia and Laticia, twin sisters who proved two are better then one...

EBC only:
Dyne, the hero of the Heresy War, and Alex, the last of the Dragonmasters.

Anyways, this topic mentiones EBC specifically, and that's what EBC (and SSSC) say in text.

DaWrestla · Post by **DaWrestla** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:23 am

The Heresy War? How I DOOOO hope they make a Lunar: Four Heroes Story! Let's hope the NP interview proves to be fruitful.

Hmmm...after seeing those quotes about the Dragonmasters, It seems that it's possible the first one with Althena's sword might have been 'The Singin Swordsman'.

...I'm reading too much into those.

Post by **Kizyr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:46 am

Angelalex242 wrote:I speak not for sources I do not have.

That said, it's time for some exact quotes from the sources I do have.

...

SSSC and EBC...these are identical:
Leon, the Mighty Gale, who fought his foes with the blinding force of a hurricane.
Gaull, the Iron Hand, who could fell the largest man with a single swing of his granite fists.
Natto, the Singing Swordsman, who often burst into song while decimating his enemies.

Yeah, these are the three new ones mentioned in the remakes. The originals had Cyclone Zeon and Iron Fist Loka, not necessarily the same as Leon the Mighty Gale and Gaul the Iron Hand.

Natto was a new one, and I liked the sound of a singing swordsman.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if you're just discussing EBC. Check the initial post of the thread; there's no reason to limit it just to the games you've played. KF

Dragonmaster Lou · Post by **Dragonmaster Lou** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:49 am

As far as I'm concerned, any Lunar game is fair to bring up in this discussion. I thought it was EBC based on my (sometimes faulty) memory, but it certainly could be any game that mentions past Dragonmasters.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:03 am

Much as I'd like to cite DS here, the Library isn't readable.

Else we might've learned just how long ago those 3 Dragonmasters were by learning which of them existed before DS, and which (by default) must've existed after.

Post by **Alunissage** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:40 am

Well, yes, and we might have learned what Louie's favorite color was or if dragons snore. There's no limit to the things we might have learned. We might have learned more about the past dragonmasters in the other games if more books had been readable, but we didn't.

And negative proof isn't proof. If they weren't mentioned that doesn't say anything at all about their timeframe. There's no indication that the lists of dragomasters in the other games are complete.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:28 am

They most definitely aren't complete, anyway.

[spoiler]Whether Jian's status as Dragonmaster was worthy of mention or not, you'd think Ignatius might've received dishonorable mention in a book...[/spoiler]

Post by **Alunissage** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:05 am

Only if people knew, which it doesn't seem that many did. Besides the whole obvious the other games were developed before this one's story was written thing. A game's not going to have a ton of details aimed toward setting up for prequels because 1) the focus is on the current story and there's only so much text, 2) they won't think of every possible thing that might potentially go into a prequel and lay groundwork for it, and 3) it becomes too limiting if they paint themselves into a corner. Look at the timing conflicts between DS and the backstory on the magic empire and Vane. Though that could have been easily fixed by picking just about any other interval of time before Lunar 1 than 1000 years...but still.

It seems very likely to me that things are left vague in part to leave room for new stories. That may be why what the Four Heroes were heroic about is never explicitly stated in the games, beyond a hint in TSS.

MiaOne · Post by **MiaOne** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:58 pm

[spoiler]Maybe the record of Ignatius and Jian being Dragonmasters got destroyed in the flood

[/spoiler]

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Jian mentioned in earlier games (specifically EBC)?

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