Lunar: from the best games ever to the most common, mediocre

[Kizyr]

Upon seeing hard evidence, those look nothing like possible dragonmasters of old. These seem to be your simple guardian statues.

So, I say nay.

But wait! What if all Dragonmasters look exactly the same! And those Dragonmasters who didn't suddenly morph into a bearded man who looks exactly like those statues when they reach 40, due to magic! And then that same magic instantly creates a statue back on the Blue Star in the fortress! And...

Ok, now I'm just being mean. KF

[Angelalex242]

Yes, you are.

You're rather like a soccer player who wins a game, and instead of shaking the other team's hand, yells 'YOU SUCK' and runs off laughing.

Not very gracious. But then, I've come to expect no better.

The fact remains, however, that in the remakes (only), the helmet is identical, and the 'beard' could be mistaken for a faceplate.

[Kizyr]

You're rather like a soccer player who wins a game, and instead of shaking the other team's hand, yells 'YOU SUCK' and runs off laughing.

¡¡¡¡¡GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!

The fact remains, however, that in the remakes (only), the helmet is identical, and the 'beard' could be mistaken for a faceplate.

Right, and this is as likely as what I mentioned about all Dragonmasters looking the same, morphing into bearded men, and the magic linking them to statues on the Blue Star. Neither of them have a shred of evidence from the series to even imply that.

You can believe it if you'd like, but there's really no way to even support it as a remote possibility. KF

[Angelalex242]

Well, then who were they based on? Louie? Guys fighting Zophar? They /don't/ look much like the guys in the Friezes.

At least, the helmets and armor styles don't match very well.

On second thought, there IS a clear picture on the relief of somebody who...I think is supposed to be Louie, but he's clean shaven. Cause the next image you see is Althena and 4 dragons flying off.

[Roas Atrades]

Well, then who were they based on? Louie? Guys fighting Zophar? They /don't/ look much like the guys in the Friezes.

At least, the helmets and armor styles don't match very well.

Honestly, I think they don't relate to anyone in particular. I think there is too much being read into these statues. They are just....statues of warriors. Temples, palaces, etc. are all laden with these types of giant statues in halls or pathways. Considering the severe lack of information to support any form of importance to these figures, these statues mean absolutely nothing.

As for the friezes, again, absolutely nothing. They are just part of the representation of the battle against Zophar. You see these kinds of things in all games that have historical friezes. If friezes in games ever represent anyone special, they are usually clearly represented as so.

[Alunissage]

Yes, you are.

You're rather like a soccer player who wins a game, and instead of shaking the other team's hand, yells 'YOU SUCK' and runs off laughing.

Not very gracious. But then, I've come to expect no better.

You rather bring it on yourself with your unwillingness to present your ideas as anything other than fact or revise them when contradicted, unwillingness to participate in a conversation rather than attempt to dominate it, and unwillingness to accept that you've lost (in your simile above). Can't you see any cause and effect here at all? Try being relaxed and flexible rather than attempting to hand down dicta and you'll get a friendlier response, if you haven't already turned everyone against you. Which you probably haven't, yet.

@ Roas, yes, I agree they're setting atmosphere rather than being strictly literal...though I think some things can still be gathered from them, such as Althena leading several ships to Lunar, not just one. There's an Inca God in TSS and the Goddess Tower has a Greco-Roman air; why not Assyrian there?

[Roas Atrades]

@ Roas, yes, I agree they're setting atmosphere rather than being strictly literal...though I think some things can still be gathered from them, such as Althena leading several ships to Lunar, not just one. There's an Inca God in TSS and the Goddess Tower has a Greco-Roman air; why not Assyrian there?

Oh, I totally agree with you there. I never meant that there was no one special in the friezes. They clearly depict Althena taking care of her people. My point was simply those bearded dudes were just normal guys, and that someone special would be depicted in a fashion like Althena and the dragons.

[revstate]

um...
i broke down and beat dragon song...
(even though it bored the hell out of me)

a very typical ending, with the exception of the completely unexplained conversation with the characters at the very end

still...

rings instead of armor ?

lame

wtf has become of lunar

[MiaOne]

still...

rings instead of armor ?

lame

wtf has become of lunar

What's even worse is that you could only have ONE ring equiped at a time. Dragonmaster my butt, Hiro was more of a Dragonmaster and he didn't even take the trials...at least Hiro could equip all the crests and be "ULTIMATE MEGA HIRO" mwhahahaa.

Jain was weak. He was only your best character because they gave him so many freakin' attacks.

[knuckles90]

My opinion about why this game isnt so great is because its on the ds. Not sayin the ds is a bad system because i got like 7 games comin out that look great. But they just wanted to try and make a profit off of a portable lunar game on a new system. But all in all, as soon as my dad takes me up to eb games im gonna trade it in so i can get fire emblem, now thats a great game! haha

[Shiva Indis]

a very typical ending, with the exception of the completely unexplained conversation with the characters at the very end

still...

rings instead of armor ?

lame

I can see how Lucia returning under completely unknown circumstances would be typical, but the ending was unsatisfactory because it was atypical. The combination of a completely unexpected choice for the final boss, very little sense of rising action or climax (Am I sounding like a film class textbook?) which were both things that Lunar 1 and 2 were good about, and the EPIC loose ends left me totally shocked that there was nothing more to play. The conversation you mention is one of the things that bothered me the least.

[lioyd]

Would someone tell me what happened at the end of lunar dragon song?

[PrettyGirlJean]

It ended unsatifactorily for most people, that's how it ended

[Spirit Icana]

I don't think the gameplay ideas for Dragon Song were bad at all. It was just TERRIBLY executed. I already have several nice gameplay ideas inspired from this game.

Unfortunatly, I don't think the story was really any better than the gameplay itself. It was overwhelmingly underdeveloped. It certainly got interesting 3/4ths through the game, but that all eventually leads to a stupid ending so....yeah. At least the music was alright from beginning to end. I still like the game for it's unique merits, but the title was incomplete. Well, I learned a lesson after this purchase, so I'm good.

I'd still recommend the game to those looking for a change of pace, though. I liked how the game at least kept me thinking and balancing a schedule. On the other hand though, that price tag shouldn't be over thirty dollars. One should probably wait for at least a half cut in price.

[Agawa]

I can see how Lucia returning under completely unknown circumstances would be typical, but the ending was unsatisfactory because it was atypical. The combination of a completely unexpected choice for the final boss, very little sense of rising action or climax (Am I sounding like a film class textbook?) which were both things that Lunar 1 and 2 were good about, and the EPIC loose ends left me totally shocked that there was nothing more to play. The conversation you mention is one of the things that bothered me the least.

I would have to wholeheartedly agree. Especially when you consider that what ends up being the final battle is not at all what you expected- I was also left at the end, amazed that it was, in fact, the end.
But then again, I suppose that's how the whole game was for me. I was contineusly surprised that I was actually advancing, due to the lack of...well, anything remotely interesting. All throughout the game I was left with a bit of a waiting feeling, like "when will I get character developement, when will I get plot advancement?" that when it actually finished I was left with a sense of loss. By the time I has finished, I was questioning how it could have been so...empty.
All in all, and especially at the end, I hardly felt like I had even played a game.

[HikariOmoi]

Woah... this is certainly a surprise. I was gettin' all hyped up; "New Lunar, new Lunar!". I was even thinking of saving up for a DS just to get it. But, but, but...

Oh, it is a beating to my frail heart to see what has become of it! My comrades have all condemned it fully or partially and hope seems to have fled me completely! Shall a new, better Lunar ever be created? Or shall we lick up the crumbs left to us by the originals? Will we line up to be disappointed, again and again?

Was it all for naught?

Enough of me being overly dramatic, but... yeah. To see that you guys have such a low opinion of it is... discouraging. Usually, a game that has some redemption will have a few supporters in these threads, but everyone's content with the overall review. It's disappointing, but not unexpected. To have one (possibly two) of the main creators of the originals away working on a bigger project, for a bigger console certainly drives the message home--this was just to satisfy the fans. To say, "We tried, see? No Lunar will ever compare. Stop complaining."

I was shocked when I saw it was on DS. What happened to the PS? I would've LOVED a Lunar on even the PSX!

I didn't play Legend and I don't think I'm playing Dragon Song. I hope they don't screw up the next Lunar (if there is one...).


Hikari

[Dragonmaster Lou]

The only thing I can hope is that this game served two purposes: 1) To see if there is still any sort of Lunar fandom out there, and 2) as some sort of technology / system demo. By "system demo," I mean to see how things they're thinking about doing to the Lunar game system with respect to money, combat, graphics, etc., and see how well received they are.

Let's see what they did right:

1) The sprites are an improvement, very Grandia style, which I feel is a good thing. If Lunar 3 uses some variation of the Grandia graphics and battle system, I would be most pleased. I feel like this may be the direction they are going in, especially as the overworld map system is also Grandia-like. If this is true, then it's a good thing. Instead of having two completely different systems/engines for both RPG series, they can share a common engine with just minor tweaks. Recycling code is a good thing in the programming world, and would make it easier for them to churn out more Lunars and Grandias as they wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel for each one.

2) Part of the money system. Actually, the whole Gad's Express to earn money thing wouldn't be so bad if you could also earn XP while you're out hunting for "sundries." It certainly is somewhat more realistic that random monsters dropping cash, after all.

Here's what I think they did wrong:

1) The battle system. Silly, two-line combat (I missed the 3D-ish battlefields of the CD-based Lunars). Also the inability to target specific enemies. It makes the battles needlessly tedious. The flip side is that I actually used the AI since you could cancel out of it at anytime, and the AI was no smarter than I would've been given the lack of control.

2) Unbalanced characters. Jian is cool, but he's way too strong compared to everyone else.

3) Character development. It just was kinda lacking.

4) Plot. Same.

5) Being unable to earn both money and XP at the same time.

That said, 3) and 4) may not necessarily be Game Arts' fault. The plot and characterizations might have been much better with a Working Designs translation as opposed to the lackluster Ubisoft translation. I mean, would Alex, Hiro, Ronfar, Jean, Mia, Lemina, Jessica, Ghaleon, etc., have been as awesome if they were stuck with a boring, bland, barely-competant translation as opposed to the colorful personalities Working Designs gave them? Now the only way to know if 3) and 4) were GA's fault or not would be to ask the opinion of someone who's played the Japanese version and who is reasonably fluent in Japanese.

[Kizyr]

That said, 3) and 4) may not necessarily be Game Arts' fault. The plot and characterizations might have been much better with a Working Designs translation as opposed to the lackluster Ubisoft translation.

I'd disagree there.

The translations were more or less good with respect to dialogue itself. A bit choppy at parts, but I've seen nothing that would indicate it should've been translated significantly differently. The problems with characterization and a lack of motivation were voiced by Japanese fans all the same. I didn't have so much a problem with it because I wasn't expecting so much from a handheld (and knew the story ahead of time, anyway). But it's a legitimate point of criticism despite any translation.

Now, regarding the half-assed effort they put into name consistency and spellchecks, that's Ubi's fault. KF

[Alunissage]

2) Part of the money system. Actually, the whole Gad's Express to earn money thing wouldn't be so bad if you could also earn XP while you're out hunting for "sundries." It certainly is somewhat more realistic that random monsters dropping cash, after all.

Yep, because monsters dropping chocolate makes a lot more sense.

I agree. I would have liked to see getting a teeny bit of EXP from normal mode and perhaps a teeny bit of silver (or the odd sundry) from Virtue mode, so at least you weren't totally wasting your time. More complex missions, going between several people, might have made things more interesting too. You were called a courier, but since you usually had to get the stuff you were delivering, it was more like order fulfilment.

[Dragonmaster Lou]

2) Part of the money system. Actually, the whole Gad's Express to earn money thing wouldn't be so bad if you could also earn XP while you're out hunting for "sundries." It certainly is somewhat more realistic that random monsters dropping cash, after all.

Yep, because monsters dropping chocolate makes a lot more sense.

I agree. I would have liked to see getting a teeny bit of EXP from normal mode and perhaps a teeny bit of silver (or the odd sundry) from Virtue mode, so at least you weren't totally wasting your time. More complex missions, going between several people, might have made things more interesting too. You were called a courier, but since you usually had to get the stuff you were delivering, it was more like order fulfilment.

Well, it would have to be something that makes sense depending on the type of monster, of course. Honey from bees, feathers from birds, etc. That sort of thing. Chocolate or frying pans or whatnot are somewhat ridiculous.