Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

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Shinto-Cetra
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Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:06 am

Would anyone know how to edit the English versions of TSS/EB to remove the graphical censorship? Eg the pentagrams, Xenobia's boss form, etc. Props to you if you have any idea to make the text NOT IN CAPS LOCK but the removing graphical censorship is what I'm really interested in. There is a similar hack already out for FF6, but from what I understand it's easier to edit SNES game files than SEGA CD game files. If there is a utility out there, I'll experiment with it (I don't know if one even exists.) As a side note, does anyone know why the English SEGA CD Lunar games had caps lock on all the time?

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:48 pm

Censorship sucks. I go out of my way to make sure the version of OoT I'm playing has the "offensive" chanting in the Fire Temple. I'm trying to find images of Xenobia's boss form in the Japanese version but nothing is coming up. Can you upload any? I'm aware of the removal of the pentagrams because of the ridiculous people who take offense to them but that's the only censorship I'm aware of.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:20 pm

Leo wrote:Censorship sucks. I go out of my way to make sure the version of OoT I'm playing has the "offensive" chanting in the Fire Temple. I'm trying to find images of Xenobia's boss form in the Japanese version but nothing is coming up. Can you upload any? I'm aware of the removal of the pentagrams because of the ridiculous people who take offense to them but that's the only censorship I'm aware of.


My source is a list of every boss sprite from TSS, so it would be a bit large to upload, but you can see it here: http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/29805/ Her boss form is different than her usual appearance: right below the Steam Engine fireball and right above Ghaleon's 1st form. The difference being Japanese TSS Xenobia has nipples. And what really bothers me about censoring Pentacles is that not all are Satanic. Many nonsatanic groups, e.g. Wiccans, Freemasons, Onmyoji etc. use them.

If anyone knows any utility for editing SEGA CD graphics, etc, please let me know.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:48 pm

Maybe they were told they had to choose between nipples and tentacles and they took the Japanese route. :lol:

What bothers me about the censorship of pentagrams is that Satanism and the concept of Satan itself is hilarious. We should all be able to enjoy any mythology regardless of if it's Egyptian, Christian, Japanese, Greek...

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby The Greatest Story » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:43 pm

Shinto-Cetra wrote:
Leo wrote:Censorship sucks. I go out of my way to make sure the version of OoT I'm playing has the "offensive" chanting in the Fire Temple. I'm trying to find images of Xenobia's boss form in the Japanese version but nothing is coming up. Can you upload any? I'm aware of the removal of the pentagrams because of the ridiculous people who take offense to them but that's the only censorship I'm aware of.


My source is a list of every boss sprite from TSS, so it would be a bit large to upload, but you can see it here: http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/29805/ Her boss form is different than her usual appearance: right below the Steam Engine fireball and right above Ghaleon's 1st form. The difference being Japanese TSS Xenobia has nipples. And what really bothers me about censoring Pentacles is that not all are Satanic. Many nonsatanic groups, e.g. Wiccans, Freemasons, Onmyoji etc. use them.

If anyone knows any utility for editing SEGA CD graphics, etc, please let me know.


Totally unrelated. Great Ghaleon armor.

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Shinto-Cetra
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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:25 am

The Greatest Story wrote:Totally unrelated. Great Ghaleon armor.

THANK YOU! Someone on this forums finally acknowledges it! (I say finally cause I made a topic earlier this year but got no responses.) I'm actually in the process of redoing part of it and now have longer ears that don't get lost in my wig.
Anyway, hopefully someone knows something about SEGA CD graphics hacking. I searched Zophar's Domain (the website, not the fictional location), couldn't find anything there.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Alunissage » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:51 am

Hadn't noticed anything with Xenobia's sprite before, but can tell you that the pentacle removal from EB was a Sega of America thing. Hence why the PlayStation version has them; SCEA didn't care.

While I don't think much of the topic being used as an excuse to ridicule people with different opinions *glares at Leo* the pentacle/pentagram thing bugs me because it's a very interesting mathematical figure and it's highly annoying that nonmathematical meanings and implications have been mapped onto it. Of course, this has been the case since Pythagoras. Still annoying. Mathematical elegance and beauty is reason enough for a shape to be significant; no other associations are needed.

Can't get the site used as reference for the Xenobia sprites to load, so can't assess those. The other example of game graphics alteration that's well known is Plantella, who has some extra vines in the NA release of EB.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:23 am

So it's okay to say Greek mythology but not Christian mythology?

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:08 pm

Alunissage wrote:Hadn't noticed anything with Xenobia's sprite before, but can tell you that the pentacle removal from EB was a Sega of America thing. Hence why the PlayStation version has them; SCEA didn't care.

While I don't think much of the topic being used as an excuse to ridicule people with different opinions *glares at Leo* the pentacle/pentagram thing bugs me because it's a very interesting mathematical figure and it's highly annoying that nonmathematical meanings and implications have been mapped onto it. Of course, this has been the case since Pythagoras. Still annoying. Mathematical elegance and beauty is reason enough for a shape to be significant; no other associations are needed.

Can't get the site used as reference for the Xenobia sprites to load, so can't assess those. The other example of game graphics alteration that's well known is Plantella, who has some extra vines in the NA release of EB.


I'm aware the Censorship was SEGA of America, it was in TSS as well as EB. I have not finished EB on SCD yet, so I was unaware of the Plantella censorship. The point I was making about the Pentagram is that it has many meanings(not all included here): Wiccan, Satanic, Freemason, Mathematical, Onmyodo (and being that Heian Era Japan had no contact or knowledge of classical Greece, this one in particular was most likely not related at all.) I don't agree about mathematical being more important.

For viewing Xenobia's sprite, since the other page had errors: http://www.spriters-resource.com/resour ... /29805.png

Anyone know about my original question?

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Alunissage » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:20 pm

Leo wrote:So it's okay to say Greek mythology but not Christian mythology?

That's not what I'm referring to. This isn't the first time you've said such and such belief is hilarious or ridiculous, when you know full well you're saying that about things actual living people believe right now, including members of the community you're in. You don't have to agree with them, and you don't even have to respect others' beliefs in your head, but bringing your jeering at them into an unrelated conversation doesn't make you an edgy iconoclast. It just makes you rude.

Thanks for the sprite sheet, Shinto-Cetra. To be honest, I had pretty much forgotten what Xenobia's monster form looks like. That battle doesn't tend to stick in my mind. I'm sorry I don't have any concrete advice regarding your question. My comment about the removal being SEGA of America rather than WD was more a general comment, since when the EB graphical edits were first noted (well, first that I saw, sometime in the late 90s) it was in a list of changes that WD had made and the implication was that it was their choice, not something imposed from outside. My opinion about the mathematical properties of the pentacle being more important than its nonmathematical connotations is just how I feel about it, of course.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:34 pm

It's just that I'm awestruck by the number of people that need the threat of eternal torture in order to maintain some of the most basic morals. I'm not for or against the concept of a God or gods, by the way.

There are pentagrams in tons of movies and I don't see those getting censored. Many of the movies that include them go out of their way to make sure you know that it's being used in a Satanic way. I'm surprised SEGA decided to make edits since it would have further solidified their "hardcore and cool" image and would have further distanced them from Nintendo. If these games were on Nintendo systems, I'd fully expect the censorship.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Sonic# » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:19 am

I imagine recovering those files would be difficult, especially if the images were altered. As for the text, perhaps it's possible to change the font, but if the source text has no capitalization, that might not be better. Lots of unknowns, so I wish you well in figuring it out.

Leo wrote:So it's okay to say Greek mythology but not Christian mythology?


To say what Alunissage is saying a different way, there's a distinction between mythology and belief. Mythology literally means the body of myths put into words. Greek mythology is not equivalent to Greek religious practices or what belief would've been in that religious tradition. It's a body of stories. That's why we can talk about mythology outside of religion - American mythology (Paul Bunyan, Rip Van Winkle, Casey, George Washington and the tree, John Henry). We can meaningfully talk about a Christian mythology, especially those arising around angels, saints' lives, and significant mythical Christian figures like King Arthur.

I'm really interested to see how games adapt mythological material of all sorts, including mythologies based around religions. What I don't do is diss bodies of belief by calling them hilarious, because I have a modicum of respect for those around me who may believe in it, and I don't think they're ridiculous for doing so.
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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:16 am

I didn't expect anyone to come running to defend Satanism. lol

And I definitely agree on mythological material in gaming being highly interesting. Once they perfect virtual reality, I think The Odyssey should be one of the first games.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Alunissage » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:37 am

Leo wrote:It's just that I'm awestruck by the number of people that need the threat of eternal torture in order to maintain some of the most basic morals. I'm not for or against the concept of a God or gods, by the way.

This is still a) not what you actually said previously and b) unrelated to the topic, although less inflammatory. You keep saying that what you said isn't in fact the thing you said to which I objected, namely: "...the concept of Satan itself is hilarious." This is synonymous with neither "Christian mythology" nor "threat of eternal torture", as you have tried to make it. My complaint is with the words you actually posted above, not whatever broad scope you are trying to make it.

BTW, there is not a specific objection to discussing religion and ethics and morals and such, although it's a subject that requires extra thoughtfulness and lack of jerkitude to be worth the potential drama. But this is not the thread for it, nor was whatever other topic it was in which you said something similar. And you know that, so your bringing in your hilarity reads more like an attempted windup or poke for lulz than anything else. Stop it. And stop digging further with your attempted reframing of what the objection to your comments are. You're doubling down instead of stepping back and it's not exactly subtle.

As far as SEGA of America's reasons for having the graphics changed, I would guess it had more to do with "let's not get sued by an angry parent" than anything else. I do wonder if there were other Genesis/SCD games that were altered similarly. The only other one I played is Vay, and that was only the one time, over 20 years ago.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:57 pm

I apologize to any Satanist that may have read my insensitive remarks.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Alunissage » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:25 pm

Again you bring in false equivalencies, throwing in an extra insult in the process while pointedly excluding the likely majority from your apology. You are really not so ignorant as to think that belief in the existence of Satan = Satanist. (If you are, you have no business using the terms at all until you learn what they mean.)

Apologize for deliberately calling a very large swathe of people a label which they would find repugnant, and/or apologize for having such a poor command of the words you're using as to do so accidentally. Either way, cease being flippant about it. Don't bother with the usual can't-you-take-a-joke that follows this kind of mediocre trollery, either.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Leo » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:52 am

What's with you and telling people what they're doing? It's like you think they're unaware of it. Turns out I was there when it happened. On top of that, anyone that's sincerely secure in their beliefs will just roll their eyes about it anyway.

Meanwhile, ON topic...

http://www.nhl94.com/html/editing/edit_iso.php

The best I can say is study this and see what you can pick up from it. If NHL '94 on Sega CD can be edited then I see no reason any of the others can't be. Get a program called Hex Workshop and hopefully you'll be able to make progress in your endeavors.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:45 am

Leo wrote:Meanwhile, ON topic...

http://www.nhl94.com/html/editing/edit_iso.php

The best I can say is study this and see what you can pick up from it. If NHL '94 on Sega CD can be edited then I see no reason any of the others can't be. Get a program called Hex Workshop and hopefully you'll be able to make progress in your endeavors.


I'm looking into this. Thanks!

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Alunissage » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:07 am

Leo wrote:What's with you and telling people what they're doing? It's like you think they're unaware of it. Turns out I was there when it happened. On top of that, anyone that's sincerely secure in their beliefs will just roll their eyes about it anyway.

Because I have this possibly misguided faith that at least some of the time people wouldn't actually choose to be rude and offensive if they realized how rude and offensive they're being. That's the thing you seem to keep missing, whether accidentally or deliberately. It's not a "this belief is more important than that belief" thing, or a "this belief is too fragile to stand up to ridicule" thing, or anything like that. It's that you're being mocking toward a given belief, and not even within a conversation about it, just out of the blue in a random conversation about something else entirely. That sort of thing makes people feel unwelcome and reluctant to participate. And it's actually worse that it's not personal (at least at the outset), e.g., you're not hassling a specific person by using whatever comes to hand to make fun of them, because it tells onlookers that regardless of their own qualities they could get these offhand slams. Which I realize you don't intend to be slams. But... look. Were you here when I came down on someone making some one-liner joke comparing a game's premise to Mormonism? It's not that I think Mormons already in the community are going to be silently put off by it. For all I know they might find it funny. But I don't want some new person coming here and seeing it unchallenged and concluding that this would be a hostile place and deciding not to post. And I don't want you being the one saying, well, they should toughen up or get off the internet, or whatever response of that sort you have on the tip of your tongue. Because it's not your call.

Also, don't bother with the "So you'd want (xyz)..." where xyz is something else entirely. Or "It's just a joke." Or any of the other myriad deflections to avoid conceding that something you said was ill-advised. To put it in something like your own terms, are you really that insecure that you can't just admit that you said something you shouldn't have, or that people arguing against you have a point? Because it reads a lot like being afraid you'll lose...something. It takes rather less effort to say "OK, I won't call other people's religious beliefs hilarious or ridiculous again" than it does to double down and keep digging, as you have been.

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Re: Potential Uncensored Graphics hack?

Postby Alunissage » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:10 am

Regarding changing the font to make it not all-caps, I really don't think you'll enjoy that effort, to be honest. You'd have to retype every line of text in the game, and there's a lot of it. And that'd probably be the least aggravating part of the job. I personally find the all-caps rather charming, myself. You play an old game, you get old graphics and constraints. (But awesome music, which makes up for quite a lot!)


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