About Ghaleon and the Vile Tribe

[DaWrestla]

Is the vile tribe all "bad" humans? If so, is that why their skin is grey and they have pointy ears (the entire tribe in DS and Ghaleon in SSSC/EBC)? But what about Xenobia, Royce, and Phacia, then?

If so, then I guess that means that Ignatius and Ghaleon are just bad humans. But I thought I heard someone around here say once that a manga called them elves.

I ask because I'm at the end of SSSC and Mia has just called Ghaleon a human. Actually, I think several people have called him that throughout the game.

[Alunissage]

The Vile Tribe isn't exactly human, although they're clearly closer to being human than to being like Althena. In one of the interviews, they're described as being magic made flesh, or something like that, which is why they have a huge advantage in casting magic -- they don't need incantations, they just do it. They also have much greater lifespans. However, they can crossbreed with humans, as one or more manga mention. The Vile Tribe/Mazoku also come in different varieties, as the beastmen do -- their uniformity in DS isn't really indicative, as DS also only showed one type of beastman when clearly Jessica and Leo look different.

Ghaleon was born in Vane and lived there until the age of approximately 17, making periodic trips back to renew his friendship with the Ausa family. And, of course, he'd been Premier for some time before all this happened. People would be much more likely to see him as human than as part of Xenobia's group, which seem to be mainly monstrous except for the three leaders who have the ability to change their shape. This seems likely to be because they were out in the Frontier, away from Althena's light, considering the ones who were too weak even for that and had to stay in those cocoons.

Kizyr should be putting up his translation of the full Vheen manga soon, and that will give more detail.

[PrettyGirlJean]

Speaking of the Vheen Manga, I recently read the translation for that and was wondering, are there any other mangas about Ghaleon's life? I mean what happened in the 120 years before TSS? I was so enthralled with the story and then it was like.... that's it! I sure hope there is.

[Alunissage]

Which did you read? If you only read the one story from his childhood, there's another in the same volume about him and Dyne meeting Lemia, and a very short one about his meeting Dyne for the first time as a child. But I think that's it.

[Shiva Indis]

The trouble here is that, like many of the fine points in this series you can get very different answers in different versions of the story.

TSS: Japanese guidebooks say that the Vile Tribe is somehow linked to the Magic Empire - their decendants or creations. This could account for Ghaleon becoming the Magic Emperor in order to rule them. It can also account Xenobia being different from the other, monsterous members of the Vile Tribe, besides that she doesn't seem to have any difficulty assuming human form. No account of Ghaleon's background.

SSS: No Magic Empire backstory. The Vile Tribe is a group of demons that Althena banished - little else to be said. No account of Ghaleon's background.

Childhood's End: Mazoku are still out there 1000 years after Lunar 1; they cast spells without invoking Althena, and can interbreed with humans. No account of Ghaleon's background, though he appears briefly.

Airship Stories: Historically, Mazoku controlled Vane, though about 150 years before Lunar 1 their race had all but faded away. Ghaleon is the last of the Vane Mazoku. They were a much longer lived race than humans are, and could cast spells instantly. Other Mazoku live in the Frontier, though nothing is said of why.

The elf thing is a fan idea.

[Kizyr]

Kizyr should be putting up his translation of the full Vheen manga soon, and that will give more detail.

Yeah, work kind of got in the way. I'll try to put it up this weekend. KF

[Angelalex242]

And then Dragon Song throws in a completely different perspective of the Vile Tribe, 1000 years before the other two.

[Anordin]

Yeah I was thinking when I was playing EBC; where was the vile tribe? Did they really return into 'humanity' during the 1000 year interval or what?

[DaWrestla]

As far as Xenobia and Royce turning into monsters, I was kinda thinking that the vile tribe were humans that were full of hate. As their hatred grew, they turned more and more into monsters. Which explains Xenobia and Royce in SSSC. This is supported by one of the EBC movies. As for the Vile Tribe members in cacoons, well, I guess Vile Tribe interbreeding would produce "humans" that were more and more monster-like and less human. That's the way I look at it.

And I didn't think the DS story necessarily contradicts SSSC/EBC.

[Shiva Indis]

Kizyr mentioned something from the Silver Star Story novels that could mesh with your theory, DaWrestla... I think it was that as Mazoku grow angry, they lose their ability to maintain human form.

I agree that Lunar DS needn't contradict SSS, and possibly needn't contradict TSS. It's hard to imagine the Vile Tribe just going quietly back to the wastelands after the events of Lunar DS, and all that needs to happen for the DS scenario to link with the SSS scenario is for at least some members of the Vile Tribe to be outside the Frontier 500 years later. As for TSS, it's a stretch, but if we were to assume that the Lunar DS era Vile Tribe = Magic Empire...

I like the sound of it, but it assumes that a lot of things happened right after the events of Lunar DS that showed no signs of happening.

[Kizyr]

Kizyr mentioned something from the Silver Star Story novels that could mesh with your theory, DaWrestla... I think it was that as Mazoku grow angry, they lose their ability to maintain human form.

That's kind of something supported by evidence in the novels, manga, and early storyboard docs for Lunar: Dragon Song. So I can't recall at the moment if it was clearly stated in the novels, or somewhat stated in all three sources.

I suppose I'll find out when I get time to re-do the novel pages. KF

[Alunissage]

I thought that was just your own theory, but maybe not. I look forward to that novel revisit. ^_^

[PrettyGirlJean]

Which did you read? If you only read the one story from his childhood, there's another in the same volume about him and Dyne meeting Lemia, and a very short one about his meeting Dyne for the first time as a child. But I think that's it.

I read all three actually. What I meant to say in my post was question what Ghaleon was doing from the time he was 17 until he met Dyne. He of course went to Vane on many occassions.

When I talk to my friend about Ghaleon she'll ask why he just turned all evil. And what I usually say in response is that his intent was not evil. He just felt that the humans needed someone to guide them and that he felt Althena was wrong for leaving that position. And then she'll say that she understands, but who was he to think HE should be the one to do it in the first place.... to which I can never seem to answer. Although I do tell her that the reason he became evil was no doubt because he didn't think that what he was doing was evil and in time his emotions probably manifested into evil and finally took over and then he was pretty much beyond reason.

And Anordin, I think that either the Vile Tribe completely transformed into monsters (which I hope not) or like you said they interbreeded to the point where the tribe side was lost and the human side remained. Actually, I'd like to think that the good and evil of the Tribe completely separated and that the evil completely transformed to creatures and the rest lived peacefully among humans (or again as humans) in EB. I remember seeing debates about Hiro and his green facial tatts... people pondering whether they are aesthetic or if they actually have a connection to the Vile Tribe... which I guess would answer why for someone who lives all alone he's strong with magic.

[Alunissage]

Well, I dunno about strong with magic...in EB his wind spells blew, ha ha. I guess they were OK in EBC, but you'd never choose them over his sword skills if the enemy weren't resistant to the latter, as I recall. His sword stuff isn't techically magic, as Jean's karate isn't...though I suppose there isn't a great explanation for why he'd be good at sword either.

Re why Ghaleon thought he was fit to replace Althena... He's a priest of Althena. He's one of the Four Heroes. He's as close as you can be to Dragonmaster without actually being Dragonmaster. He's Mazoku, with all the magic advantage that gave. The Mazoku had dominated Vane before their aging and low birthrate diminished them while the population grew; Ghaleon would still be in his prime. He'd been travelling Lunar for 120 years and knew what the people needed, or felt he did. It doesn't surprise me that he'd see himself as the only possible candidate. No one else would approach him in power or knowledge.

[snaztacular]

What a coincidence about the translation, my Vheen manga should be arriving next Tuesday