Debate: Luna and Alex's Romance is Awesome or Creepy?

[PrettyGirlJean]

Hi all,

Sorry for the funky subject, I wasn't sure how to word it. A couple weeks ago my best friend and I had a friendly debate (for almost an hour and a half) about Luna and Alex's romance. She said she found it too weird that they fell in love because she feels it would have been *highly unlikely for them not to have thought of eachother as brother and sister despite knowing that they were not. Her points were that if Luna had been adopted by them even 5 years later it would have been okay because both she and Alex would've been old enough to understand they were not siblings and would not have been forming a bond since infancy. Her other point was if Luna had been adopted by say the neighbors. She further argued that there had to be some sort of boundary like those or else it was too weird. So then I asked her say she lived next door but Alex and Luna spent ALL of their time together day/night but living next door was the ONLY difference would it still be weird? She said no, because there is that boundary. She said that perhaps I couldn't understand where she was coming from because she has siblings and I am an only child. I conceded somewhat on that...

So my arguments were that if they grew up NOT knowing they weren't related, then found out and then suddenly became romantically involved or the like that yes, I think that would be a bit creepy or at the least awkward. But I still stand firm that since they grew up knowing they weren't related that it isn't weird at all. I know that some bonds can be made even during infancy but I really don't think a 5 year span would make THAT much difference. I asked my husband to weigh in on it and he said that it depends on the environment they grew up in as well because they would have an impact on culture, ideals, morals, etc. Which lead me to question if maybe our thoughts on the issue may be related to our religious beliefs? Maybe that's not even relevant.

Honestly, I guess it just comes down to a matter of opinion because aside from the fact that the game informs the player that Luna and Alex knew they weren't related, I guess we don't really know all of the details of their life growing up together. It's really funny that my friend and I had this debate because way back in the day we debated on the relationship between Luna and Lucia as well... though I think I lost that one because I thought before the remakes came out that Luna and Lucia were somehow related by blood.

Now, with all of that being said, I was hoping to have you guys weigh in with your thoughts and opinions. This is really just meant to be for fun, but if any of the moderators feel this is an inappropriate discussion please let me know and of course go ahead and delete this post. Otherwise, I'm really looking forward to what everyone thinks!

Thanks and take care!

EDIT: *I changed 'impossible' to 'highly unlikely' since my friend read this and didn't like my wording :p

[Sonic#]

It's not inappropriate at all, though it's been something I've sometimes wondered about.

They aren't related, and it's clear they've always known that. Maybe their parents raised them relatively equally, but even just knowing that probably does a lot to alleviate the taboo.

Very early in the game, it's clear they behave together as two people who were raised together, with appropriate bickering about how the bed is kept and so on. They're good friends, ones that have happened to know each other since earliest memory and who happen to live each other. Once they get underway, it gradually becomes clear that they have a deeper abiding affection for one another, which I've always thought only became truly manifest when they left Burg and had far more to worry about, including their futures. In that sense, I see nothing unnatural in the relationship.

So Alex and Luna relate to each other as close friends under the same roof. Your friend's contention is that it is alike enough to a brother/sister relationship to feel taboo. In current Western dating culture, where the model seems to be finding someone as unfamiliar as possible to date, it does seem bizarre to look to the home. But I think Alex and Luna's relation is perfectly natural. For example, if Burg were an Appalachian community in the 1850's, with rather isolated towns and homesteads, a home could have a couple of families living together by marriage and convenience, or simply have extended family together. In those situations, where the people they grew up with didn't change, there was little difference in familiarity (and potential for romantic love) between the boy on the other side of town, the cousin down the road, and the in-law living in the same house. The common value was familiarity, and while actual brother/sister incest was taboo, they could distinguish between being siblings and only living under the same roof. In fact, such familiarity would have been desirable, since it'd more likely be a stronger marriage if they have gotten used to each other's household habits without "living in sin." The same holds true for many towns back into medieval times and before, and up through at least the 50's. And that says nothing about other cultures, of which I plead ignorant.

So yes, to reiterate, the romance is awesome. It's also uncommon, at least here.

[phyco126]

Not creepy.

[BattleMedic]

It depends on Luna's and Alex's prespective. As Alex being the actual son of the family, coming from a family with a blood related mother and father, he probably seen Luna as a sister/part of the family before the adventure. Luna on the other hand, most likely felt separated because she wasn't blood related to the family (If I remember correctly, in Lunar Legend, she doesn't call Alex's parents 'mom' and 'dad'.) It probably made matters worse that her singing voice made her feel different from everybody else in general. As Alex accepting her as pretty much a sister, Luna could have felt heavier feelings because he accepted her for her. As the adventure progressed, they saw eath other as indivduals and the 'close but no cigar' family faded in the background. Alex realized it after Luna is kidnapped because spending so much time away from home.

This thought is more of a shot in the dark so I don't have that much to back it up.

[NallOne]

I wouldn't call it creepy, but I did always feel that id cheapened their romance a bit. It is just this dark dirty thing that they can't quite escape. Sure there are plenty of explanations and excuses that could be made about how they knew they were not related and such, but I don't think blood is all that important really. It makes me think of that real life brother and sister who did not know they were related and met up later in life and fell in love. They knew it was wrong once they found out, but they stayed together because they had already fallen in love. That is realistic. A revelation of blood ties might not suddenly change everything, depending on the person. Real brother and sister bond, something form from growing up in that relationship, is a little different. My sister is a my sister. Aside from my sexuality being an issue, I could never view her as anything romantic because I have been exposed to her every day of her life, the good and the bad and the ugly, and she is imprinted in my mind as an extension of myself in a way unlike romance.

Luna and Alex would have the same, I'd imagine. Prior to puberty (on Alex's part, anyway) I am most certain they viewed each other as siblings and best friends. Of course they were not truly brother and sister, but they lived their lives as such. That is just speculation of course, but I feel it is a safe enough assumption. To make the leap from an entire life of sharing a sibling bond to romance ... it is a bit weird.

That said it is a video game and their love story is central so I guess I just felt the need to get over it and enjoy their romance. When I just stop and thinking about it though ... it definitely adds a strange vibe to their relationship. Creep is a bit strong for me though.

[liquidpolicenaut]

Its not creepy at all....but I also wouldnt label it as "awesome!"....more like...sweet and endearing

[Shiva Indis]

It's cute and it's never bothered me, but I'll add that I've become jaded to the childhood friends -> lovers trope. It's so popular in Japanese pop media, yet realistically speaking, familiarity breeds contempt. There have even been studies on it.

[Alunissage]

(If I remember correctly, in Lunar Legend, she doesn't call Alex's parents 'mom' and 'dad'.)

Actually, I think you have it reversed. In the WD games she never refers to them as [her] mom and dad, just Alex's mom and dad. Nall, too. I remember Vic making a comment on this, that he really tried to avoid anything that suggested they saw each other as siblings. I think in Legend she DOES refer to Alex's mom as "mom", and of course there's that one image of her and Thalia hugging.

I think that a lot depends on how the parents treat them (I don't mean better/worse, but how they refer to them) and how they treat each other. I'm guessing the people commenting that it seems implausible or whatnot haven't grown up with a foster or step-sibling, someone they always knew wasn't really a sibling? I haven't either, but input from someone who has would be useful.

Relationships change, too. I was ten and a half when my sister was born. At first I didn't like her, because I resented not being an only child. As I got over that, I was also babysitting her, and when we grew close, I was more like an extra parent to her. Then I went to college, and at some point she got into her annoying adolescent phase and was probably as snotty to me as to any other parental figure, until, no kidding, we started playing the same videogames. This gave us something to talk about from our fairly different lives at that time and we became sisters on a more even level. Obviously this is a much different example.

Keep in mind also, that in the SegaCD games Alex and Luna are the same age. In the remakes, he's a couple years older... old enough to understand that this is a new person coming into the house. There are several comments about his taking care of her (and a little flashback in Legend). Because of this, I really doubt that Luna would feel more alienated from Alex and the family than they would from her (in response to BattleMedic). If anything, it'd be the other way around, because they're the only family she's known.

I think it's pretty plain even at the beginning of the game that they're a couple, by the way. The people in Burg know it, certainly, even if the two of them have never put it into words with each other. I rather thought that Luna's SSSC internal monologue while on the boat was a bit forced, and put there just as a setup for the song -- which I don't think is about finding love but about finding what she really wants to do with her life. The interactions with NPCs make it plain that she already knows he's hers. And, for that matter, so does her conversation with Alex (in SSSC) the night before they leave Burg:

Luna: Adventure. We’re going on a real adventure …
I never paid much thought to the course that our lives might take, Alex.
I guess I always imagined the two of us would have a home of our own someday.

That's more than I'd intended to write on this topic. Heh.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

Childhood sweethearts that grew up in the same house? Not a problem.

[Nobiyuki77]

No Meryod posts yet? For shame!

And I don't think it's creepy, if for no other reason the fact that

1) they aren't actually blood brother and sister
2) no one ELSE on Lunar seems to care either

[NallOne]

I'm guessing the people commenting that it seems implausible or whatnot haven't grown up with a foster or step-sibling, someone they always knew wasn't really a sibling? I haven't either, but input from someone who has would be useful.

I have in a sense. It probably isn't what you were looking for though. My sister is my half-sibling since we have different Fathers, and she has two other brothers and a sister to her Dad that I am not related to by blood. I still grew around them though and always looked at them as siblings (and the feeling was mutual) even though we all knew that was not the case. Likewise I have always referred to my sister's Father and his siblings as my aunts and uncles even though they are of no relation to me. Again I'm sure this isn't what you were looking for, but I suppose my point is that I could never view any of them as anything less than family (and brothers/sisters) even though that really isn't true.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

No Meryod posts yet? For shame!

And I don't think it's creepy, if for no other reason the fact that

1) they aren't actually blood brother and sister
2) no one ELSE on Lunar seems to care either

Important point. The way it seems, it isn't a taboo on Lunar. They didn't grow up thinking anything of that sort would or should feel wrong.

[Bravo 29]

I never thought of it as creepy. As the game progresses, and they realize who they really are, it makes the romance much more believable. I mean Alex's main goal wasn't to save the world, but to save Luna. He just wound up saving the world in the process. My friend and I roleplayed the characters for long periods of time, and we never found it creepy, either. It was a great story, which we never tire of.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

As the game progresses, and they realize who they really are, it makes the romance much more believable.

It's basically a Zack & Miri Make A Porno sort of situation, except they lived in the same house.

When Fresca asks Luna when she plans to start bearing the dragonmaster's children, it's sorta like the part where Zack says "I met her in the first grade. You don't -Fatal Hopper- someone you met in the first grade." then I'm certain it changes from there.

Was there anything at all in EB or EBC that mentioned descendants of Alex?

[Bravo 29]

Nothing is mentioned about their children. In EB, one of the books in the Vane Library said they lived a long life together. They and the rest of their friends soon disappeared into the annals of history. I've seen nothing more on the subject since.

[Alunissage]

I think one of the interviews said that the developers specfically avoided making outright connections between the Lunar 1 characters and the Lunar 2 ones, with the obvious exceptions of the Ausa and Ramus families.

[Dark Sploosh]

I don't think it's creepy at all, but I'm not sure if I'd call it sweet either. To be honest, Luna and Alex's romance was engaging when I was younger, but as I've gotten older I've come to find it quite bland compared to the other relationships in the game. Mia's and Nash's had more conflict, and Kyle's and Jessica's was interesting in that they were technically already together, which is very atypical in Japanese RPGs.

With Alex and Luna, I kind of felt as if they were in love just because the game said so. I mean, they don't even spend a lot of time together in game. I know they grew up together and all, but most of their relationship development taking place where we can't see it isn't very interesting in my opinion. Then comes the fact that, even when they are said to be aware they are in love, they don't especially act like it. Characters comment on it a lot, but neither Alex nor Luna ever say "I love you," nor do they kiss or really show any kind of affection that would indicate more than just very close friends. All in all, their supposed romance seems more like an excuse to have the hero have a motivation for rescuing the damsel in the end, and it's probably one of the weaker aspects of SSSC for me.

Speaking of which, I've only played SSSC, not TSS, so if any of the above is different in TSS, I wouldn't know it. While we're speaking of other games in the series though, I felt Hiro's and Lucia's romance in EB was handled much better than Alex's and Luna's, and was definitely a lot more compelling, but that's just me.

[Shiva Indis]

Kyle's and Jessica's was interesting in that they were technically already together, which is very atypical in Japanese RPGs.

Since the Japanese story is clear in my mind right now courtesy of Harmony, I can say that we should probably thank WD for this. In Harmony, and thus likely in Japanese SSS as well, Jessica and Kyle are "just childhood friends". (I wish I was a diligent note-taker like Alun and knew exactly where I saw this, because it might belong on the J to E differences.) The dynamic between the characters isn't different, but the way the player is introduced to it does impact the perception.

The romantic stuff is much less evident in TSS, BTW. Most obviously, Luna is in the party for a much shorter period of time, and generally figures into the story less.

[phyco126]

I figured that Nash's and Mia's relationship is the creepiest. I could never get away with carrying around a picture of some girl that I like when she barely even notices me. It's frowned upon in society.

[Alunissage]

I seem to recall that in TSS, when you first meet Jessica in Lann she says she just had a fight with "a jerk in Nanza", and that when you have the full party, someone in the Temple says something like "Oh, so this is your 'friend'!" and she responds "What are you talking about? I hardly know this guy!" I'm a bit inclined to think that there were probably fewer changes made in TSS, though perhaps I'm imagining that.

In all three of the remakes, Kyle is drunk when Alex first goes through Nanza on the way to Lann, and certainly in English he's maudlin over Jessica being angry because he was flirting with someone else ("Why are you so angry, Jethy? I juth held her hand..."), if you talk to him before he lands in the cell. In Legend you actually overhear some of their argument while on the way to Nanza. That suggests to me that although Jessica may claim that they're just childhood friends, there's at least an understanding that they're in some sort of relationship, whether they've spelled it out to themselves or not. It did seem out of place to me that in Jessica's introduction in SSSC she referred to her "former boyfriend" since that seemed a bit too formalized to fit their dynamic.

Cf. also the text on the back of her third bromide card from the MPEG game...