dragonmaster for a bad guy

[Alunissage]

Not then, but she has the heal spell early on, perhaps from the first.

[Angelalex242]

That's not the point! Even cursed (funnily enough) she still has the following...before Ronfar even bothers healing her...

Napalm Shot (Lucia's Assault Magic)
Heal Litany, Power Charge, Magic Barrier, Blue Star Prayer.

Edit:Around level 24 or so, she gets Lightning Bomb (Lucia's Deadly Magic).
Edit:Around level 27 or so, she gets Plasma Rain (Lucia's Powerful Magic)
Edit:Around level 35 or so, she regains Thunder Blow (Lucia's Loud Magic)
Edit:Around level 40 or so, she regains Plasma Rain (No comment)
Edit:Around level 43 or so, she regains Atomic Burn (Lucia's Painful Magic)
Edit:Around level 48 or so, she regains Atomic Burn (No comment, functions like Jean's Aura attack, normally called Atomic Blow)

I'm editing this post so I have an archive of her 'lesser spells'.

So right out of the spire, you could get Free Healing out of her if it worked.

So she's not completely helpless while cursed after all...or wouldn't be if it weren't for stupid AI

[phyco126]

Well, I still fail to see how Lucia could even be considered younger than 16, physically. Even if Hiro did suduce her, her is 17 after all, not really staturatory rape. If he was 18, then yes. If she was 15 (depending on the state of course,) then yes. But not in this case.

Besides, I know someone who is 19 and is so freaking naive, does that make her a 13 year old?

As for your hatred with kissing scenes, errr, this wouldn't happen to do with your religion, would it? I ask this because according to some religions, you kiss someone, even out of love, then you go to hell, you go to hell and you die!

I find that thought silly, as the kiss is an international way of sybolizing love. Sure, holding hands are great, but whats wrong with two lovers kissing each other? I thought it put a lovely touch on the end, (and I felt that the art work with Alex and Luna kissing was, and still is, awesome.)

Now with the whole "what the heck is she" part. I don't see how an artist drawing a girl in men's clothes really makes the girl a sexless person. Unless I missed some other qoutes of course. I mean, maybe if he said "I thought it would be funny to draw a sexless female-like person in male's clothing, and have a male fall for her" then I would easily agree that she is a sexless person.

[Kizyr]

...the age 18 only has significance in our society. It's kind of silly to extend it to a fantasy world with magic, dragons, and goddesses. KF

[phyco126]

Well, 18 only has a significance in today's society. Remember, back in the middle age, it wasn't uncommon to marry off your 13 year old

Edit: Then wouldn't it also make it silly to extend statatory rape into a fantasy game too? That is after all, a society rule.

[drumlord]

...the age 18 only has significance in our society. It's kind of silly to extend it to a fantasy world with magic, dragons, and goddesses. KF

This is true. But still, one has to wonder if he got a license to drive the Destiny. Must be a pain to parallel park it.

[GhaleonOne]

On top of that, generally the man was like 18-20 and the girl was like 13-14. For example, Mary would have probably been 13-14 when she had Jesus. I remember when I was originally told that before I knew about age differences to societies and really getting freaked about it at first.

[Angelalex242]

...I can sorta see why Lucia's AI only.

She really would be 10 times more effective under player control. Makes me wish I could hack the game and instil some strategy into her naive mind...

[Alunissage]

As for your hatred with kissing scenes, errr, this wouldn't happen to do with your religion, would it? I ask this because according to some religions, you kiss someone, even out of love, then you go to hell, you go to hell and you die!

I know you mean no offense, so I'll endeavor to take none. But my religion believes nothing of the sort. Hell is the grave, nothing more, and the common lot of all who die, not just the bad. Its conceptual use to instill fear is truly foul. No, it's strictly my own feeling. I don't like love scenes of any sort. I'm not interested in watching someone else so much as kiss; it feels like intrusion on a very personal moment that should not be shared by others, even fourth-wall viewers. I don't even like that part of weddings.

And you're missing the point with the age thing. I don't know how to make it any clearer, but chronological age is less relevant than emotional age and experience. However old Lucia was physically, she would still only be as old as the experiences she had as a human would allow her to be emotionally. I used the phrase statutory rape not to make a reference to age but to define something which might not be completely a function of physical force (I would think attempting to physically rape Lucia would have immediate and extremely painful if not fatal consequences) but still would be decidedly taking advantage of her innocence and lack of knowledge -- her 'youth' -- to do something she could not fully consent to knowingly because she didn't have that knowledge. That is in fact why statutory rape exists even when both parties are willing...if one is sufficiently young, then it's presumed that that person could not really have known what they were getting into and/or may the older person may have been using perceived authority to compel that person to agree. I dated someone who was 18 when I was 15, and yes, anything we did would have been considered statutory rape. (And yes, he did try to guilt-trip me into things by taking advantage of my not having had any previous relationships by heavily implying that this was what was expected of such relationships, so don't give me any nonsense about it not really happening.)

As the material I quoted said, Hiro is the first person she sees and there's something of the parent figure in him, in the way that young animals imprint. Therefore, moves on his part would have been abusing that authority, at the outset. It is perhaps to Hiro's credit that he doesn't try to do any such thing and in fact reacts in total shock to her joining him in the spring. Of course, the memory of her blasting away monsters in the Spire might not have hurt.

You did read the whole section I quoted, right? The line about being put in men's clothes was only the beginning, and I only included it to indicate that Lucia was the topic of discussion. The parts I was getting at are below that.

[phyco126]

Ah, I see, I didn't realize there was more to the quote. I read it, and saw what he said. I suppose that is suffiecent evidence to go off of, but still.... I don't know, I'm too tired to go on about that one, I'll have to do it tomorrow or something.

As for the age thing, I finally understand what you are saying. You are saying she may be old enough physically, but she's still emotionally too young. *nods* I don't know though, she seems more naive about humans than mature If she kissed Hiro, then I assume that she knew enough about what it meant (not like Hiro told her what a kiss was.)

And yeah, I meant no offense, I was more or less curious, as I know people like what I had mentioned (in terms of believing what kissing does.) I guess it's somewhat understandable that you don't like witnessing it, as from what I understood, if I understood correctly, you have no right seeing something so private.

???

[Alunissage]

Yeah, that's about it. I mean, if you were finally kissing the woman you loved for the first time would you want an audience?

Oh, and just a humorous thought...remember that one guy in Larpa you can talk to, on a ledge to the right of the Sanctuary? He mentions Lucia watching him, er, relieving himself. That should show her childlike innocence fairly clearly, no? (As I recall, he gets his face toasted for his trouble.)

[Angelalex242]

Bah. You sort of make Hiro sound like a pedophile. The songs, among other things, don't seem to match that image. 'Our love forever will be destiny?'

...Besides, Lucia is off the scale of what 'normality' might be based on. If she's even SEEN a human pregame...or anybody besides Althena for that matter, it was...10,000 years ago or more.

I also dislike comments like 'young animal imprinting someone as a parent'.

She's a GODDESS for crying out loud, not an animal.

...Ya know, it occurs to me that if we ever saw her speaking to Althena directly...a living Althena...she'd come off as much more relationship mature. Just because one doesn't know how to relate to mortals doesn't mean one doesn't know how to relate to fellow deities.

...The whole child thing just...bugs the hell out of me. I always saw it as a goddess getting used to the foibles of mortals. Althena, after all, surely didn't have the faults and failings of mortals, so mortals are a new experience.

[Alunissage]

Hey, I didn't make that up. Didn't I quote that part?

Kubooka: That [the Blue Star/the crystal Lucia sleeps in] was more or less supposed to be like a womb. The sleeping Lucia is like an embryo, and she's supposed to pass through the birth canal and come out into the outside world. When she meets Hiero, it's the same as when-both for children and animals-they think of the first thing they see as their parent.

The songs, of course, are translations, though I'm sure there's some intent to have her grow up over the course of the game.

The whole idolizing Lucia thing bugs the hell out of me, but I don't see it changing just for that. And she's something like a goddess.

[Angelalex242]

The more you cite developers, the more I wonder why their views just don't come across to me as they intended.

I suppose it's like looking at a painting, interpreting it...then having the artist walk up and say, "No, you idiot, that's not what it represents at all..."

[Alunissage]

I dunno, I guess because you were seeing what you wanted to see? Perhaps many people who decide they particularly admire a specific character want to see that person as desirable to them personally as possible. Like the fanfic writers who were always putting Spock in romantic situations...okay, that's a few decades out of date, but you know what I mean. There was one guy at the WDMB who kept talking about how wonderful Lucia was and how superior to any human female he actually knew, and I and another woman on that board were incredulous. I mean, he was praising her intelligence. Of all the traits to see in her...this was only after playing the demo, too, where she isn't exactly brainy. You don't seem to have as bad a case as him, at least, except for your sig. (And if you ARE him, I swear I'll clobber you.)

Of course, you also played a remake, and I'm quoting materials written about the original. Some things did change, the presentation of the animation among them. It may be that their view of her changed. But I never had trouble taking her as being an almost stupidly innocent child...actually, her portrayal in the Lunatic Parade comic in the guide seems about right. I don't dislike her as much as I did when I first played, but she does seem rather...overhyped.

[Angelalex242]

Ah, no. I'm my own guy. And I'm certainly not insane enough to take a video game character over reality. Funnily enough, my REAL girlfriend just seems to LOVE me more...Imagine that.

I am, however, an RPer type, and I'm quite insane enough to try RPing Lucia.
Would it scare you if I mentioned I'd been RPing her for a couple years now in various venues?

Why do you think I grill you so thoroughly about her background? Though this be madness, there's a method to it.

But yes. My whole view of her stemmed from 'Immortal Goddess' and interpreted her life and actions through that lens. It shall be noted I always RP her through that lens, and I've never tried doing it through the child lens. Of course...I like to think there's no real difference excpt in my own thought patterns.

So you're doing the equivalent of fighting an actor over his intepretation of Macbeth.

Edit:...Ronfar is /45/ years old? A wanted notice Leo posts in West Nota says so directly, and Leo has a long enough history with Ronfar to know. And he's not fond of lying. He...doesn't SEEM 45 to me...but it makes me guess how old Leo is...

[drumlord]

Yeah, that's about it. I mean, if you were finally kissing the woman you loved for the first time would you want an audience?

After like 50 mentions of this kiss stuff, my will has been broken. It's a story. It is not real. It sounds much more that you are insecure and that it simply makes you uncomfortable than the rationale you try to give it. Holding hands is not a better way to show your affection. This isn't the first grade any more. You yourself said you don't like the kissing part of weddings, which is a very magical and signifigant moment. And not wanting that to be there is quite prudish and takes away from the entire event, as does taking scenes that include kisses out of games and movies.

[Kizyr]

Well, there are ways to show weddings without showing kissing scenes. Almost every Indian movie has a wedding scene--even the action ones. But any kissing scenes are generally absent.

But that's something else entirely. I still liked the scene at the end of EB, as I did the picture on the back of the TSS manual. It's certainly a lot more romantic to the general audience than only holding hands.

Plus, after spending the entire game among humans, I think Lucia finally 'caught up' in maturity with everyone else. KF

[drumlord]

Well, there are ways to show weddings without showing kissing scenes. Almost every Indian movie has a wedding scene--even the action ones. But any kissing scenes are generally absent.

Very true, but she said "I don't even like that part of weddings" which seems to be referring to real weddings, not wedding scenes.

[GhaleonOne]

Edit:...Ronfar is /45/ years old? A wanted notice Leo posts in West Nota says so directly, and Leo has a long enough history with Ronfar to know. And he's not fond of lying. He...doesn't SEEM 45 to me...but it makes me guess how old Leo is...

It stated his age in that? I'll have to go back and check that out. I know Shigema's official age is around 17 or so for Ronfar, which is just too young IMO. But all his characters are younger than they should be. Working Designs translation would be the cause for a 45 year old Ronfar though, not the original Japanese source in Shigema. Even at that, there's the "You're 35 and don't have a girlfriend?" joke Ruby made towards Leo, which contradicts Shigema's age for him as well.