We need more fans.

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Leo
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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:12 pm

Nonononoki wrote:
jay_are wrote:This is basically it. But instead of iOS, 3DS is better, it's the most popular that has REAL BUTTONS

As much as I like the 3DS, I think handheld consoles are dying out (I myself only own handhelds btw). People probably only buy the 3DS 'cause of the Nintendo exclusive games like Pokemon, Zelda Smash Bros ect.
Almost anyone nowadays owns a Android or iOS device, so it's just more accessible for new people to get to know Lunar.

jay_are wrote:and the games will practically never crash. >__>

That's what I meant with "proper ports" :p


That makes me sad.
I hate that the world seems to revolve around smartphones now. People are living with their faces stuck in them and when they aren't messing with their phones, they're talking about their phones. The same phone they built up like it was going to be amazing and now dislike out of how eager they are for the next one. I'm fine with a flip phone. I don't need my phone to do anything other than make calls, send texts and inform me of what time it is. lol

If they remade the Sega CD games for the PS4 and made them 3D while remaining as true to the art style as they can, then that would have the potential to save Lunar.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby LunarRaptor » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:05 am

... but that doesnt mean that the game wasn't "good enough".

That's not what I said at all. What I'm saying is that a lot of modern gamers do not care about older games. What I mean about overhauling it is enhancing it (not just the graphics, either). I mean changing up the whole game completely. I don't see ported versions of the PS1 games making waves, either. The fact of the matter is, Lunar hasn't been big news in such a long time that drastic measures will be needed.
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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:16 am

It's true. Even the greatness of "Metroidvania" has had to move to handhelds and it's been a while since we got one of those either. Despite most people not liking them, the console releases are in 3D. Lunar on Xbox One and PS4 would need to be as well.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Nonononoki » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:55 am

Leo wrote:It's true. Even the greatness of "Metroidvania" has had to move to handhelds and it's been a while since we got one of those either. Despite most people not liking them, the console releases are in 3D. Lunar on Xbox One and PS4 would need to be as well.


I have to disagree. I would hate it if a new Lunar would become 3D and I think people would still buy a 2D game for their home console if it's good. Look at Lunar: Silver Star Harmony. It was an awesome and beautiful game "despite" being 2D and people bought it for exactly that reason. And yeah, I still miss those 2D "Metroidvania" games and would definitely buy some of 'em if more would be produced. Another good example is the "Broken Blade" series. People hated it when they switched to 3D, so they decided to switch back to 2D in their 5th game.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:10 pm

I prefer to call it Shrunken Star Harmony. I don't feel it bolstered the fanbase. With the damage Dragon Song did to the Lunar name, I think the series needs a major facelift to allow the jaded and new players alike to let go of that.

Think back to when you were a kid and you'd fantasize about the future of gaming. Back when you didn't let nostalgia stand in your way. I would always imagine it being a VR kind of experience like you're actually in the game. If all of the environments provide the feel and look of Kubooka's art style, Lunar in the 3rd dimension would be breathtaking.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby jay_are » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:27 pm

Super Metroid-like games need to return. AND FAST!!!!!!
What the heck are they doing?
Castlevania needs to keep doing them, Metroid needs to keep doing them, and there are many more action adventure games that focused on exploration like this that need to return. I wish there was a better name other than "MetroidVania", because really, even though those are the most well known, they weren't the only ones to do that type of seamless exploration adventure game. It's like calling every platformer a "Mario game" or every shooting sidescroller a "Contra" game.

Nonononoki wrote:I would hate it if a new Lunar would become 3D

It all depends in what way it would become 3D...
Just because it would be 3D doesn't mean that it will lose its charm. I've seen a few very beautiful 3D games that I could totally see Lunar benefitting from. Like, when you're in the overworld of Lunar, especially in SSH, all you see is a picture on your screen and that's it. Sometimes I play a 3D game where there would be a big forest for example, and I just get excited imagining for example that that's a forest from the Sega CD Lunar overworld...

But still. 2D or 3D won't define the game's sales or popularity of whether it will create a storm or not. There are MANY beautiful looking games out there that barely have any recognition, both 2D and 3D.

Leo wrote:Think back to when you were a kid and you'd fantasize about the future of gaming. Back when you didn't let nostalgia stand in your way. I would always imagine it being a VR kind of experience like you're actually in the game. If all of the environments provide the feel and look of Kubooka's art style, Lunar in the 3rd dimension would be breathtaking.

This is correct.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:12 pm

The term "MetroidVania" is just to keep people from arguing on NES/SNES style Castlevania vs PS1 and on Castlevania. I think they should make more games in both styles.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby jay_are » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:18 pm

Speaking of that though... isn't that odd we aren't getting more of that sub-genre, when it is so popular and was once mainstream?
Besides indies of course.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:09 pm

Well, whether you like it or not, making jump to 3D is going to be necessity if Lunar is going to become big news again. I'd even recommend getting rid of the turn-based combat for Action/RPG gamestyle.
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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:11 am

jay_are wrote:Speaking of that though... isn't that odd we aren't getting more of that sub-genre, when it is so popular and was once mainstream?
Besides indies of course.


They've made plenty of great Castlevania games on that Metroidish style on DS and GBA and possibly others I'm forgetting. Not a single one of them has surpassed Symphony Of The Night. Setting my Lunar fanboyism aside, it's highly possible that SotN has the best soundtrack of any video game. The game is truly a masterpiece. Some may attack the voice acting, but I think that manner of speaking suits it well. Look at the year the game is set in, afterall. GRANDIA has bad voice acting, but I'm still loving that so far.

I think they should remake SotN for PS4/Xbox One. They should keep it 2D and see just how beautiful 2D can be with those system specs. They'd also need Michiru Yamane doing the music. It's daunting to even try to imagine what those sprites would be like. I know it sounds hypocritical of me since I'm insisting that a console remake of the Lunar games should be 3D, but we have a long way to go before Castlevania can be done PROPERLY in 3D. Dracula's castle has to feel huge. You need tons of equipment and secrets to find. They tried 3D Castlevania on N64 and saw we aren't there yet. I've played one of the PS2 ones and that was meh. Our aspirations are stronger than our resources.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:13 am

LunarRaptor wrote:Well, whether you like it or not, making jump to 3D is going to be necessity if Lunar is going to become big news again. I'd even recommend getting rid of the turn-based combat for Action/RPG gamestyle.


What about the combat mechanics of Grandia? I could see a Lunar working like that.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Imperial Knight » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:04 am

I think a hypothetical new Lunar game would have a careful balance to strike. It would make sense to update things and not just do a re-hash, but on the other hand if you stray too far from the old games, it won't really feel like a Lunar.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:04 pm

Imperial Knight wrote:I think a hypothetical new Lunar game would have a careful balance to strike. It would make sense to update things and not just do a re-hash, but on the other hand if you stray too far from the old games, it won't really feel like a Lunar.


If the music is done by Iwadare, as much of the original staff as possible makes the story, range remains a factor in battle and the art style is Lunar then I believe it'll feel like Lunar. I'd love to see how it could look 3D.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby LunarRaptor » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:19 pm

At the end of the day, it will be difficult for Lunar to become relevant again while maintaining its identity. Alas, all the other franchises that have survived to this day did it by changing and adjusting as they must over time. Lunar cannot stand still with mere remakes and sequels identical to the old games and expect to move forward. As Leo said, get as much of the original staff, have Iwadare do the music, keep the artstyle consistent, and stick with themes that the Lunar series has always held, and it should still feel like Lunar.
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Re: We need more fans.

Postby jay_are » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:08 am

LunarRaptor wrote:It will be difficult for Lunar to become relevant again while maintaining its identity.


True. With the funding it needs and the brilliant people that need to get together for it to become relevant, yes it would be very difficult.
But I think it is still entirely possible for Lunar to evolve and maintain or even strengthen its identity. Just imagine a game with a world as big as TSS, with the difficulty and overall balance of SSSC, the looks of SSH (though it dropped some things that were in SSSC), and without the loading times / technical problems of SSH... see, the formula is there, buuut... sometimes i think not many people deserve it even.

http://1.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/13/29/b ... af83d1.jpg
Many people reacted like this to what could be in my mind the best possible revival of an old game.

Xseed said that even Legend of Heroes - Trails in the Sky, which is an amazing game and quite popular too, did not meet the sales goal to justify bringing over the next 2 games, but they've slowly been doing 2 as a last chance and ONLY if that sells good they'd bring 3. Sometimes i'm scared to think that even if Lunar was that combination i described above, the JRPG fans would still not appreciate.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:34 am

It doesn't matter how great your game is if you don't market it much. Commercials are a good idea.

Has there ever been a commercial about a Lunar game aired in America?

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Kizyr » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:13 pm

Leo wrote:It doesn't matter how great your game is if you don't market it much. Commercials are a good idea.

Has there ever been a commercial about a Lunar game aired in America?

Nope. VG commercials these days tend to be all about the big-budget releases (see Destiny), or clickity mobile games with in-app purchases (see Age of War or that siege castle game or whatever the Candy Crush Saga guys are doing). When the bigger Lunar games (TSS, EB, SSS, EBC) were released, it was before the era of mobile games and VG commercials period were just few and far between.

On a related note, I don't see any studio putting big budget-level resources into a new Lunar game. It's too uncertain a property and name, so it's too risky a bet. I see just half-baked games like Lunar: DS or limited ports like the iOS Lunar on the horizon, when the only thing that'd really revive the fandom is an epic-level game like EB.

...but I'm notoriously pessimistic. KF

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Leo » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:55 am

Well I know I saw commercials for both Baten Kaitos and Tales Of Symphonia and they mesmerized me. I bought them eagerly. ToS actually satisfied.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby jay_are » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:10 pm

Leo wrote:Well I know I saw commercials for both Baten Kaitos and Tales Of Symphonia and they mesmerized me. I bought them eagerly. ToS actually satisfied.

I saw a commercial of FF3 DS back in the day. It made me wanna buy it. And my friends would tell me to look when the commercial appeared and i'd be like IM GONNA BUY IT!!
Even if I didn't like it much at first, cause the game itself REALLY doesn't look much like the beautiful intro movie (i've seen much better in DS) , or like the beautiful 2D FF1 and 2 on PS1... but I liked the game.

Final Fantasy X-2 had a commercial too, and holy turd...
It's like the commercial itself is faithful to what you're going to get, and that's exactly why I didn't buy it.
I like that it's an honest commercial, but. they should pay me for watching that commercial instead.

If Lunar is going to get a TV commercial, then it should do a... wait, it's already gotten it in Japan. More than 1 actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCT0e6iIWfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH1QiYsHMSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO1rekujUyc

I like them. For their time they're good. The 3rd one wouldn't do well in USA I THINK................. but the first 2 have aged well.
Hey maybe the lack of ads and commercials are why the PSP version didn't sell well besides its technical issues.
When the PSP version came out though, I did hear a few friends telling me that they had a big poster or something at GameStop advertising the game, but i never saw it.

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Re: We need more fans.

Postby Sonic# » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:04 am

^ I get the feeling based on the Segato Sanshiro ads and similar ones that video game commercials were bigger in Japan, at least in the 1990s. Based on the style of the ad alone (live action/animation, followed by game footage and voiceover, followed by title), it also takes a lot of its cues from Sega's own style, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were getting some funding from developers. Alternatively, maybe ad space is less expensive? In contrast, given that only really big developers were buying ad time in the US (first party developers + a few major players), I can't imagine that Nintendo, Sony or Sega were funding third party ads often at all.
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