Tempest and Fresca

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Alunissage
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:45 am

I've always had the impression that Nash was genuinely shocked by the news of Ghaleon's plan, and was only roped into betraying them later in the game (so, after the Plaster Mel bit). But I haven't played through that section of any of the remakes recently. One could even make an argument that threats like that one would've been a factor in his deciding to work for Ghaleon, out of fear.

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Greco12
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:27 pm

That does make a little more sense.

Anyway, back to Tempest and Fresca. It seems like a waste to have Fresca, Jessica, and Mia all strapped up and ready to go after the guys only for the guys to walk right in. What was the point of that? Was that just to tease the player? "We were going to help you, but now that you're back I guess you don't need our help for this dungeon! Tee hee!"

Or did the development team just figure that they didn't want to drag out the dungeon further?

Either way, it doesn't sit well with me that they render the girls useless (in a game already centered around saving a damsel in distress) and then deprive them of any agency just when they're about to help. Was removing them from the party for the Black Dragon Fortress just to make the dungeon harder (no healing or helpful buffs), or were they seriously trying to force another "save the girls" plot into the narrative? It wouldn't be so distracting if Jessica and Mia weren't capable and awesome characters outside of this part of the game (Mia becomes leader of the Magic Guild and destroys the shield around the Grindery; Jessica is really strong and takes no crap, and she breaks herself and Mia out of Xenobia's spell while Xenobia turns her attention to the guys in the Talon Mines).

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Alunissage
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:13 am

Well, again, they were just applying the story element of illness and a temporary party member going into the adjacent dungeon with the rest of the party to fix it to the new setting of that dungeon being the Black Dragon Fortress and instant recovery from the illness after the completion of that dungeon (and Alex not being a healer in this game, other than Blue Dragon Healing). They rewrote some of the storyline without changing other parts of it, so there's a mismatch. I'm sure that it wasn't specifically "make the dungeon harder" or "force a 'save the girls' plot" intent except inasmuch as those elements were present in the TSS version. In TSS the Pao elder has to do something with the seal that Tempest and others bring back from Grimzol's Cave, so the people who were sick are still sick when the party returns and recover on-camera. Mia is delirious and calling out for Papa, the only mention of her actually having a father in the games.

And, of course, the five-member party limitation meant that at least one person would have to be out of commission if Tempest was to join. It would've been cool if Fresca had also joined the party, but that wouldn't have made sense in TSS (because her being sick was the motivation for Tempest to break his clan's law and get the seal), and I suppose they didn't think of it or didn't want to develop a second character for only one dungeon in SSS.

So yes, I agree it was jarring, but not from deliberate design. (Incidentally, the two incidents you mention of Mia defeating the Grindery and Jessica and Mia breaking out of Xenobia's spell are not in TSS either.) It's from rewriting some of that part but not all of it.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:18 pm

Going back to TSS, I get the impression the point was to make Grimzol's cave harder since the monsters in that dungeon are pretty tough. The only spell caster you have to rely on is Nash, whose spells aren't nearly as useful or versatile as Mia's.

I just wish they had done something to rectify the gendered implications (the girls get decommissioned for one dungeon, which the boys have to brave on their own) of the Pao sickness for the remakes. It's especially distracting since Lunar 2 didn't have any moments like that, yet all iterations of The Silver Star keep it.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:48 pm

I don't think I ever used magic in Grimzol's Cave, other than healing (by Alex) and Kyle's skills. You get a decent weapon for Nash pretty soon in, and it has a fixed attack. His strongest spell against the cave's strongest monster would do at most around 65 damage to it due to its high anti-magic, while with the Pixie Bow he could do around 100 with each of his two attacks.

I really don't think there was that much of a non-story reason to exclude Mia and Jessica in the first game. But taking out just one person (to make room in the party for Tempest) would've put too much attention on that one character storywise.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:56 am

Someone told me the whole point of the sickness affecting the girls was to put Kyle, Nash, and Tempest's plights on par with Alex's by putting all of their significant others in danger. Of course, this was coming from someone who was just playing through the game, so it was probably just conjecture on their part.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby The Boat Song » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:59 pm

^That was my impression to, when I played the game first. Alex got to save Luna for such a long time, the other couples seemed to be on honeymoon in comparison.

With that being said, I don't know if you'll get very happy with Lunar, if you're unconfortable with oldfashioned gender roles. I found the games pretty sexist tbh (EB doesn't make it much better with that meet-your-waifu-goddess-plot imo). Don't mean to say that they're ok or such (I'm a half german, half african-american homosexual, I don't expect anything from videogames in that regard l0l).

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:53 am

Eh, Lunar 2 doesn't have the same gender issues as Lunar 1. Jean and Lemina never ended up as damsels (no, being locked up in prison with the rest of the party doesn't count), and they have fully-fleshed out arcs that didn't involve love interests (Lemina laments in her diary about not being able to find a cute guy, but it doesn't hurt her arc or character in any way).

Lucia had those nude bath/spring scenes, but that's not nearly as bad as being segregated out of a dungeon due to illness. And even though she became a damsel in the end, she still helped the party out during the fight with Zophar.


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