Demo!

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Alunissage
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Re: Demo!

Postby Alunissage » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:23 am

DevNall wrote:Well, I spent a while reverse engineering software for corporate and academic R&D groups, and occasionally it's fun to look inside a video game and see what you can find. Sometimes, you find pieces of the game that were uncut or unfinished, although they've been unusually good about cleaning up those odds and ends in Lunar. I think I've posted before here about some of the odds and ends I found, including a few unused item icons and an empty character slot in the original MegaCD game. (If anyone has a beta or Japanese demo of one of the older games, I'd be interested to take a look.)

Anyway, back long, long ago, shortly after the Lunar 2 remake came out (in the US), people were discussing rumors of "Bromide X" that no one had yet found, and I decided to take a look; I found it using some off-the shell tools, posted about it, and since then I think I've been on Alun's dragon-diamond-list ; )


I understand the interest in finding out what else might be there... heck, I'd really like to find DeadElf's notes on what he got out of the EBC demo years ago. (The only thing I remember is that one of the pajamas in it was named Bernie's Pajamas.) I just hate the idea of finding things that are supposed to be IN the game outside of the game, especially before the game is even out. That's basically the equivalent of a spoiler. People aren't supposed to look up the answers to puzzles, they're supposed to solve them on their own. Also, people weren't discussing rumors of Bromide X; you started the rumors by finding it on the disc and posting it. That's the sort of thing I don't want to see happening, at least not before the game's been out for a year or so and people have had the chance to find whatever there is to find legitimately.

Unfortunately, while the Japanese EB demo is a MegaCD disc, it's video only, so it's unlikely to have any game data on it. I don't remember you posting about stuff you'd found in that game, though...? I'd really like to hear about it, though not on this particular thread.

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Nobiyuki77
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Re: Demo!

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:31 am

Okay, for those who need to play on custom firmware, here's the decrypted ISO

http://www.studio-zel.com/LunarDemo/NPJH-90073.iso

You have to download this and put it into the ISO folder of your Memory Stick (the ISO folder should be in the Root folder. If it's not, make one). Set the PSP's ISO mode to M33 driver and you're set to go. Enjoy.

Oh, and for the record, I'm only doing this because the demo is FREE. I will NOT under ANY circumstances do this for the full game. I'm paying money for it, and so should you! ^^
-Nobi

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Kizyr
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Re: Demo!

Postby Kizyr » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:17 am

I finally updated my PSP, finally got an account, and finally am downloading the demo. That took long enough...

A "Let's Play" video this weekend might not be a bad idea. KF

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Re: Demo!

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:23 am

I sent some videos for G1 that I made, but if others want to make videos please do, I just used a demo of CamStudio so my equipment isn't exactly state of the art. >>

I'm just looking around for extra stuff like NPCs etc. I wonder if there's a level cap on the demo...

Oh by the by, you can't save on the demo, but at the end it DOES ask you if you want to create a save showing you completed it. Apparently this will unlock some bonus items or something.
-Nobi

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Kizyr
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Re: Demo!

Postby Kizyr » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:44 am

Finishing the game just unlocks the promo video. Anyway, I just finished the entire demo. It's looking pretty good! A couple items for now (big update this weekend):
- All the music sounds worlds better over SSS. There's that tiny bit of music from TSS when you see Quark, too.
- Voice acting and opening song were all clearly redone, and they're in better quality as well
- All sprite animation, including in-battle and in town, is really, really fluid
- Battle animations are pretty neat, especially the spells
- No real story changes over SSS so far; everything is exactly as it was then, down to NPC dialogue. There's an added comment on the cute picture that Alex drew of Luna that he stashed in the basement though.
- There's no dash button (unless there's an item later in the game for it). One of the Famitsu reviews mentioned that there would be one.
- Arts Gauge is back; it works mostly the same way as in Lunar Legend
- Gaining a level restores all your HP/MP

That's about all I can think of for now. KF

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Re: Demo!

Postby fates » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:58 am

Hold the R button to move a *little* faster. Not quite dashing, but...

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Re: Demo!

Postby GhaleonOne » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:03 am

BTW, I got them Nobi. I meant to PM you back. They'll definitely be used on my big update.
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Re: Demo!

Postby DevNall » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:10 am

Alunissage wrote:Also, people weren't discussing rumors of Bromide X; you started the rumors by finding it on the disc and posting it.

That can't be right; I went looking for it because of other discussions about it (based primarily on the X or whatever was in the strategy guide). Also I remember distinctly someone else had actually posted on the WD board before me that they had found it but declined to say how or what it was, although many nobody else took any interest in that post.

Anyway, for whoever is interested, here's the music from the demo:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L3DAIIO2

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Alunissage
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Re: Demo!

Postby Alunissage » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:01 am

I remember that post; an ex-employee of WD had "anonymously" tipped off someone about it, although he (the tipper) got some details wrong. I definitely remember your find being the catalyst for the hunt, though.

Anyway, I finally got to play some of the demo tonight, after complaining bitterly to my husband (who had forgotten to get it running for me the previous night) about being left out. (Thanks to Nobi for posting whatever it was he did, which saved him a lot of trouble!) I haven't finished the demo because I ran out of battery power shortly after meeting Quark.

The first thing to notice, of course, is the music. Everyone's commented on the quality; I don't recall anyone mentioning that some of the pieces, at least, have a second repeat with different instrumentation. The first in-game piece of music you hear, just after the scene with Alex and Nall, for example: the melody is first on ocarina, then there's a bit of a bridge (? not too good with the terminology) that wasn't in the SSS version, then the melody repeats on acoustic guitar. Very possibly a real recording, since I could hear the fingers slipping on the metal-wound strings; Joe will have to let me know, since I know very little about that instrument. ^_^ Same thing with the Burg music.

The most striking thing by far to me is how very very similar this is to SSS, and when relevant, to LL. I mean, really similar. Here are some points:

- opening scenes at the monument, etc (of course)
- the same notable Burg NPCs: Meribian woman with the spellcasting kids (same spells, at least for the boy), girl who Alex helped with music, guy who wants to know what Nall is, kid who wants Luna to sing (same voice clip, I think), and guy who demands 30s of Ramus. That last was a trigger in SSSC enabling getting the bromides from Ramus at the end of the game; I wonder if that's the case here.
- Start with same amount of Silver, I think.
- Chests in Alex's basement hold the same things, and Alex's father gives him the same three items (weapons and flame ring). I also saw a chest near the beginning of the Weird Wood (Goat Forest); SSS has one in a similar location. Legend had several chests scattered around Burg also, but I don't remember if they all contained Herbs and Antidotes as they do here.
- Red Chest in Ramus's room. Also, the same parts of places get comments from Nall -- Ramus's shelf, Luna's bed and bureau, etc.
- Store sells the same items for the same prices. At least, the ones I checked were the same; I didn't look up SSSC's shop inventory. One difference I did see is that Ramus and Luna couldn't equip the Short Sword, unlike in SSS. Also, I think the store wasn't open when you first went to it in SSSC, and it's open immediately in the demo.
- ALL character stats, including experience, were exactly the same as in SSS, although all three started at Level 3 instead of 1. Incidentally, Legend also had the same character stats except for Luck and (obviously) Range, with the sole exception being Ramus who had completely different stats except for HP.
- Same icons for type of equipment as in Legend.
- Magic spells are the same as in SSS and Legend, and Arts spells are the same as in Legend. The only difference is that in SSS Luna learned Purity Song at level 3, while in HSS and Legend she gets it at Level 5.
- Monsters appear to have the same stats. The four in the White Dragon Cave had the same names, the same special attack (the Sasquatch/Albino Baboon's Ice Shot), the same item drop, and the same EXP and Silver awarded as in SSS. (Note that this is different from SSSC, which adjusted these stats and others.) I didn't bother trying to work out any of the other stats, but I have no reason to think they're different. I think Legend has the same stats also, but I haven't yet checked that exhaustively.
- All items and equipment appear to have the same names and stats, although I didn't actually test this with the healing items. The Star Light (Mental Gum?) is the only thing I'm not sure has the same name; it didn't match either SSS or Legend exactly, but for all I know could be an alternate spelling. Something for Kizyr to check.
- Another thing Kizyr, Shiva Indis, or someone else with Japanese would have to confirm: the dialogue looks very, very familiar. Like, all of it. It could be exactly the same script.

By the way, I'm afraid Kizyr is mistaken about the Quark intro music. It's definitely the same as in SSS. I don't know if you were referring to the ominous stuff or the more calm soothing stuff, but the latter is distinctly different from TSS's in the second chord. As for the first part, for the life of me I can't remember the TSS music right before the harp arpeggios cut in, but the HSS music matches the Korean SSS cutscene, which was the easiest thing for me to check.

I have some assorted comments for things which are actually unique to this version -- sprites and the like -- but am too tired to type them up and those are the things everyone will see eventually anyway. The one thing that is quick is that if the White Dragon Cave is typical, this game will probably be pretty easy, since the enemies appear to have the SSS stats but the characters start at level 3 and regain all HP and MP at level-up AND have the Arts spells. I rather hope XSeed will consider taking out the regaining HP and MP at level-up.

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Re: Demo!

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:55 am

Kizyr wrote:- There's no dash button (unless there's an item later in the game for it). One of the Famitsu reviews mentioned that there would be one.


It's the R trigger.
-Nobi

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Re: Demo!

Postby Alex_Pwns_Hiro » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:18 pm

Nobiyuki77 wrote:Okay, for those who need to play on custom firmware, here's the decrypted ISO

http://www.studio-zel.com/LunarDemo/NPJH-90073.iso

You have to download this and put it into the ISO folder of your Memory Stick (the ISO folder should be in the Root folder. If it's not, make one). Set the PSP's ISO mode to M33 driver and you're set to go. Enjoy.

Oh, and for the record, I'm only doing this because the demo is FREE. I will NOT under ANY circumstances do this for the full game. I'm paying money for it, and so should you! ^^


Hey Nobi. I downloaded it and put it into the ISO folder, but nothing shows up under game on the PSP. I have 5.50 GEN-D, and other full PSP game ISO's and CSO's (that I own of course) work fine. Any idea whats wrong?
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Re: Demo!

Postby Snipes101 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:26 pm

Alex_Pwns_Hiro wrote:Hey Nobi. I downloaded it and put it into the ISO folder, but nothing shows up under game on the PSP. I have 5.50 GEN-D, and other full PSP game ISO's and CSO's (that I own of course) work fine. Any idea whats wrong?


Redownload it, it works perfect on my 2001 5.50 GEN-D(FULL)

Man the intro and main menu look great about to start playing :D

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Kizyr
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Re: Demo!

Postby Kizyr » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:50 pm

Nobiyuki77 wrote:
Kizyr wrote:- There's no dash button (unless there's an item later in the game for it). One of the Famitsu reviews mentioned that there would be one.


It's the R trigger.

Oh right... there are trigger buttons.

Alunissage wrote:By the way, I'm afraid Kizyr is mistaken about the Quark intro music. It's definitely the same as in SSS. I don't know if you were referring to the ominous stuff or the more calm soothing stuff, but the latter is distinctly different from TSS's in the second chord. As for the first part, for the life of me I can't remember the TSS music right before the harp arpeggios cut in, but the HSS music matches the Korean SSS cutscene, which was the easiest thing for me to check.

The part right before the harp arpeggios cut in is what I was referring to. It's a brief bit that was carried over from TSS to SSS and now to SSH. Sure, it's more an issue of it being carried over from SSS, but I like any occurrence of TSS's music anywhere. KF

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Re: Demo!

Postby Sonix » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:42 pm

Can anyone tell me how is the battle theme? Hopefuly not the same as SSSC. That one was terrible.
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Re: Demo!

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:47 pm

Sonix wrote:Can anyone tell me how is the battle theme? Hopefuly not the same as SSSC. That one was terrible.


It's rearranged a bit, but it's the SSSC battle theme. All of the music in the demo is rearranged SSSC music. It's really become the highlight of the game for me.
-Nobi

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Re: Demo!

Postby DevNall » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:56 pm

Alunissage wrote:I remember that post; an ex-employee of WD had "anonymously" tipped off someone about it, although he (the tipper) got some details wrong. I definitely remember your find being the catalyst for the hunt, though.

It is true I don't think I personally knew anyone who was actively looking for; now, I didn't buy the guide myself but I did know people who had the game's guide and they were all talking about the "X" or whatever was in there, and there was also a fair amount of discussion about this on WD's board at the time, so I figured it was safe to look for. (Of course, I know a number of LUNAR fans still upset about the Dark Scimitar, and some of them were very displeased upon seeing this in the guide.)

Alunissage wrote:Very possibly a real recording, since I could hear the fingers slipping on the metal-wound strings; Joe will have to let me know, since I know very little about that instrument. ^_^ Same thing with the Burg music.

Unlike SSS/SSSC which used basically MIDI, the audio in HoSS is more akin to highly compressed MP3s. That doesn't really tell you how they made it, but it's definitely not being run through a synthesizer on the PSP.

Alunissage wrote:- All items and equipment appear to have the same names and stats, although I didn't actually test this with the healing items. The Star Light (Mental Gum?) is the only thing I'm not sure has the same name; it didn't match either SSS or Legend exactly, but for all I know could be an alternate spelling. Something for Kizyr to check.
- Another thing Kizyr, Shiva Indis, or someone else with Japanese would have to confirm: the dialogue looks very, very familiar. Like, all of it. It could be exactly the same script.

I noticed the dialog too, the first time I played it.

From a brief look through the engine of the game, it looks like they just either built this ontop of SSS or re-used huge chunks of that material and just tacked on some additions here or there.

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Re: Demo!

Postby Alex_Pwns_Hiro » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:14 am

Snipes101 wrote:
Alex_Pwns_Hiro wrote:Hey Nobi. I downloaded it and put it into the ISO folder, but nothing shows up under game on the PSP. I have 5.50 GEN-D, and other full PSP game ISO's and CSO's (that I own of course) work fine. Any idea whats wrong?


Redownload it, it works perfect on my 2001 5.50 GEN-D(FULL)

Man the intro and main menu look great about to start playing :D


I redownloaded it, and it is working fine now. Thanks!

And Nobi, thank you SO much for uploading this! Playing it now!
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Re: Demo!

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:44 am

Alex_Pwns_Hiro wrote:I redownloaded it, and it is working fine now. Thanks!

And Nobi, thank you SO much for uploading this! Playing it now!


You're quite welcome. Gotta spread the Lunar love around ^_^
-Nobi

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Re: Demo!

Postby Snipes101 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:37 am

Nobiyuki77 wrote:
Alex_Pwns_Hiro wrote:I redownloaded it, and it is working fine now. Thanks!

And Nobi, thank you SO much for uploading this! Playing it now!


You're quite welcome. Gotta spread the Lunar love around ^_^



Yeah bro, thanks a lot I'm in LOVE with Lunar all over again :D

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Re: Demo!

Postby Shiva Indis » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:00 pm

Finally got my PSP to connect to something! (The silly thing doesn't play well with the security measures on the connections in the places I frequent.) First order of business: do whatever it takes to get that demo. ^_^ I did a close comparison of the dialog to the Japanese Playstation version and found little changes here and there, but very minor.

Alunissage wrote:- the same notable Burg NPCs: Meribian woman with the spellcasting kids (same spells, at least for the boy)

The husband is a little less negative about his marriage, "failed" became "rushed in too quickly". The girl's spell is a little bit different too. Formerly "chichin pui no pui", (that's abracadabra Japanese style,) now "chichin pui no kuma". Kuma -> bear, and the spell is (and was) supposed to turn Alex into a bear.

Alunissage wrote:- Red Chest in Ramus's room. Also, the same parts of places get comments from Nall -- Ramus's shelf, Luna's bed and bureau, etc.

The initial Luna's bed text is toned down from "Luna will half-kill you if she finds out" to "Luna will yell at you if she finds out". Also, Does Ramus have a Aperture Weighted Storage Cube on the top of his dresser??

Alunissage wrote:- All items and equipment appear to have the same names and stats, although I didn't actually test this with the healing items. The Star Light (Mental Gum?) is the only thing I'm not sure has the same name; it didn't match either SSS or Legend exactly, but for all I know could be an alternate spelling.

It matched SSS as far as I could see. 星くずの光 -> Stardust Light.

Other odds and ends: a couple of Nall's comments to the animals are different. I didn't see the "do you want food" one to dogs at all. And is the cow gone?? Additionally, Alex's mom has an extra line expressing worry when she learns about the trip to the dragon cave, I guess the staff thought she seemed a little cavalier before. I think that's all I've got on the text without getting into minute changes in wording.
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