My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

For discussion of Lunar: Silver Star Harmony, the PSP remake of Lunar 1
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Lunar Eclipse
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Lunar Eclipse » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:18 pm

Maybe it's just because I'm a horrible item hoarder, but I still thought some bosses posed a decent threat. I had a couple of instances against the Bronze Dogs where they'd cast Fire Ball at the end of a round (after Jessica's turn) and then cast it again in the next round on the same person (before Jessica's turn). If they went after someone like Nash, he was dead. Likewise, I ran into several situations during the Black Dragon battle wherein everyone would get their turn followed by a Thunder Breath / Flame Breath combo. I'd then try to cast Dragon Healing and would end up having Alex's turn pop out last, meaning only he and (if I was lucky) Kyle would still be alive. I mean, yes, they were survivable battles, but I felt the randomized turn order made for some difficulty (or, well, frustration, depending upon how you look at it).
Let those who war with life forfeit their own! -- Mareg, Grandia II

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Aaron
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Aaron » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:22 pm

If you liked the translation then you can thank Working Designs, not Xseed.

They practically copied and pasted 90% of the game dialogue. Although there were some minor changes like the Meyrod stuff, they still were hicks but the way they decided to write it out was different from the way WD did it.

You can't forget the new stuff either (Jess cooking/Aiferune etc) if you liked the dialogue in those then thank Xseed. But for the chatter between NPCs & such, then thank WD.

For me, whatever Xseed touched made the game less enjoyable. (Fortress of Althena is now Azure City?) Some of the changes were very superfluous. And some were just down right stupid.

I hope if they remake EB they don't use the WD script or they ONLY use the WD script. Swapping in and out was irritating. Oh and hopefully Xseed will hire better song writers & voice actors.


@Lunar Eclipse
When I fought the Black Dragon it was hilarious, all he did was keep blowing me and trying to paralyze me. He didn't once deal damage. (I'm not talking about the part before the actual battle, I'm talking about the time after). The most difficult place are the woods to get to the girls bathing spring. But even that could be dodged on your way there.

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Lunar Eclipse » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:45 pm

Now I just feel completely unlucky. ;_;

As for what they touched, most of it was highly inconsequential. You can quibble about minor things like the Azure City of Althena, the Ghoto Woods, and Honmel Isle, but in the end, it doesn't make the game any less enjoyable, so I don't really see the argument here. They wanted to be more accurate with place names, which I think is actually understandable from the perspective of potentially wanting everything to connect correctly if there's a new Lunar somewhere down the line. In the context of Eternal Blue, the Azure City makes quite a bit more sense considering it was meant to be a mobile city for transporting the people between planet and satellite, not some sort of intergalactic warship.
Let those who war with life forfeit their own! -- Mareg, Grandia II

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Shiva Indis » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:03 pm

You aren't alone Lunar Eclipse, I ocassionally had trouble with where the enemy turns fell, particularly while fighting bosses.

SO I HATE THIS GAME! :x
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Aaron » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:39 pm

Lunar Eclipse wrote:Now I just feel completely unlucky. ;_;

As for what they touched, most of it was highly inconsequential. You can quibble about minor things like the Azure City of Althena, the Ghoto Woods, and Honmel Isle, but in the end, it doesn't make the game any less enjoyable, so I don't really see the argument here.


When you get to the end of the game, tell me what you think. (If you've already beat it then tell me if you notice this)

Spoiler:

WD: I don't remember when it started exactly, but the dream of having a fantastic adventure in far off places grabbed my heart early and has yet to let go. You see, my hero is Dragonmaster Dyne. Outside my village there is a monument made in his honor. His adventures were the most fantastic of all. Fighting evil, risking death protecting the Goddess Althena, its all so...so exciting. One day I want to have adventures like that...but excitment of that kind is a long way from Burg.

Xseed: I wonder how long its been since the dream of adventure came to fill my mind. Adventure...and Dragonmaster Dyne who faught so valliantly to protect the Goddess Althena. I wonder if Dyne stood here before setting off on his own adventures...One day, I, too, hope to heed the call of the wind. Beckoning me to the lands beyond...to where my own adventures await.


Now which one reads and makes more sense to you? If you can honestly say Xseed, then there really is no reason to debate. The style used by WD made more sense. It included purpose and motive. Xseed just blatantly hopes that the audience will accept this monologue.

The Xseed translation is filled with this. In ever anime scene and every major plot development words are minced and aggrandized for no reason. Even WD's jokes are better, like when they're riding on Nall to the Azure City/Fortress of Althena there is that slightly famous joke Kyle makes about Jessica always ditching class. Xseed attempts it and all that resulted for me was a major facepalm. The scene came off as inorganic and unnatural.

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Lunar3coming » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:48 pm

Aaron wrote:
Lunar Eclipse wrote:Now I just feel completely unlucky. ;_;

As for what they touched, most of it was highly inconsequential. You can quibble about minor things like the Azure City of Althena, the Ghoto Woods, and Honmel Isle, but in the end, it doesn't make the game any less enjoyable, so I don't really see the argument here.


When you get to the end of the game, tell me what you think. (If you've already beat it then tell me if you notice this)

Spoiler:

WD: I don't remember when it started exactly, but the dream of having a fantastic adventure in far off places grabbed my heart early and has yet to let go. You see, my hero is Dragonmaster Dyne. Outside my village there is a monument made in his honor. His adventures were the most fantastic of all. Fighting evil, risking death protecting the Goddess Althena, its all so...so exciting. One day I want to have adventures like that...but excitment of that kind is a long way from Burg.

Xseed: I wonder how long its been since the dream of adventure came to fill my mind. Adventure...and Dragonmaster Dyne who faught so valliantly to protect the Goddess Althena. I wonder if Dyne stood here before setting off on his own adventures...One day, I, too, hope to heed the call of the wind. Beckoning me to the lands beyond...to where my own adventures await.


Now which one reads and makes more sense to you? If you can honestly say Xseed, then there really is no reason to debate. The style used by WD made more sense. It included purpose and motive. Xseed just blatantly hopes that the audience will accept this monologue.

The Xseed translation is filled with this. In ever anime scene and every major plot development words are minced and aggrandized for no reason. Even WD's jokes are better, like when they're riding on Nall to the Azure City/Fortress of Althena there is that slightly famous joke Kyle makes about Jessica always ditching class. Xseed attempts it and all that resulted for me was a major facepalm. The scene came off as inorganic and unnatural.


Personally, I like the new way that Xseed translated these things. This reflects the same sentiments found and the original Japanese. Not only that, the translation isn't talking down to us like we're a bunch of retarded elementary school kids anymore. The WD was all over the place and ranged from potty mouth to completely nonsensical. I don't know if anyone recalls that stint of crap in with Ghaleon in the Black Dragon Fortress in the WD version with the "fetters" etc. but that was nothing but nonsense. I'm extremely glad to see that Xseed fixed this stuff. Not only that in the WD version they had Ghaleon taking Luna for his "goddess bride/woman" but that never really happened in the real game. Xseed fixed that, too. I feel like a lot of these complaints are coming just because WD didn't work on it.

I agree whole-heartedly that some of the VA could have been better but I don't think the game merits this level of harsh criticism.

Now if we can get EB and a Lunar 3.

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Lunar Eclipse » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:55 pm

Aaron wrote:Now which one reads and makes more sense to you? If you can honestly say Xseed, then there really is no reason to debate. The style used by WD made more sense. It included purpose and motive. Xseed just blatantly hopes that the audience will accept this monologue.

That we'll blatantly accept it? I don't really understand what you mean. In terms of staging, Working Designs' original text wouldn't have worked for Silver Star Harmony. Because there's no accompanying dialogue with a portrait in the Complete version, we can assume that Alex's narration is coming from some different time and place (hence the reference to where the monument is even though Alex is already standing there). As it's staged in Harmony, it seems more like an inner monologue for Alex as he's reflecting on the monument. The Working Designs wording doesn't work in this instance. Additionally, there's no reason to reiterate what Dyne did or how Dyne's party interacted since we actually have a prologue that gives us that background this time around, plus it already establishes Alex's admiration for Dyne with the scene in which his parents are telling him the story. So, I still don't really get what you mean by "hoping we accept" the monologue when we have more reason to accept it than in any prior version thanks to the prologue.
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby whitedragon_nall » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:03 am

I think both the WD monologue and the Xseed monologue got the point across. Alex has been dreaming of adventure for a long time, he loves Dyne's story, and he wants to experience his own adventure some day. Those points are present in both translations.

I didn't have any issues with the flight to the fortress scene either. What felt so inorganic and unnatural about it?
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby ShindoW » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:29 am

I'm really on the fence... I really like the WD translation (lyrics and text, not so much the jokes though..) but XSeeD has better translation when it comes down to it. I really can't decide which to love more-- each has their own spin and I'd prefer XSeeD had just done their own thing rather than WDs script... so I like them both. :D
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Sonic# » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:54 am

Now which one reads and makes more sense to you? If you can honestly say Xseed, then there really is no reason to debate. The style used by WD made more sense. It included purpose and motive. Xseed just blatantly hopes that the audience will accept this monologue.


I can explicate it for you.

Xseed: I wonder how long its been since the dream of adventure came to fill my mind. Adventure...and Dragonmaster Dyne who faught so valliantly to protect the Goddess Althena. I wonder if Dyne stood here before setting off on his own adventures...One day, I, too, hope to heed the call of the wind. Beckoning me to the lands beyond...to where my own adventures await.


The first sentence sets up the dream of adventure in general. The second sentence specifies the dream - it's about Dragonmaster Dyne. The third sentence compares his own position to that of Dyne's. The fourth expresses his wish to follow in Dyne's footsteps and adventure. The fifth specifies a direction - the wind of destiny leads beyond Burg, and he must follow it.

It's a teenager wishing for more out of his life. What's incoherent about that?

Also, I like Lunar Eclipse's rendition of the differences. This is supposed to be an interior monologue done at the moment by a wistful teen, while also serving as an introduction to the hero's reason for being. We see his enthusiasm, but also what he might become. The syntax is pleasing and colloquial, while WD's is slightly more formal and detached but no more or less "correct" or clear. They both serve their purpose.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby jay_are » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:11 pm

Aaron
I found every single battle extremely easy, and extremely slow.

Another thing I did not like about this game was the long, & frequent load times.


Whooa... so I've been playing the game now, and I'm surprised at how long the loading takes!
Shorter game + 10 times the loading time. ( i timed it! it takes 1 second to load a new screen in all of the older versions, but 10 seconds in SSH)
For myself, I don't mind... but for a PSP and a game from year 2009, i just don't accept excuses!
They must have programmed a 10 second delay on purpose.
Guys, 20 years ago, we had the Sega CD :lol: featuring TONS of exquisite content, and NO loading time. Maybe the developer's minds were clearer back when there wasn't so much to work with.

Battles are slowish too, but at least rewarding! They look beautifully made. Except those battle icons that are just 1 color each, they look like street signs or something. :<

So I've played for 4 hours now and i haven't even gotten to Saith yet. For the PS1 version, i still have my save file from my first playthrough. At the part where you return to Burg and then meet the white dragon, I had only around 8 hours of gameplay! At this rate, it's gonna be 20 hours when i get there on the PSP.......
So that's the MAIN problem here. Too slow.

Surprisingly, I do love the new voice acting!
I almost always felt embarrassed whenever they talked in the PS1 version.
But not in the PSP version! :lol:

•Nall's voice is much different
•Luna sounds more natural when speaking, but why did they keep both old Luna's singing voice and the new one?
If they changed it, they should have changed it everywhere. :O
•Ramus sounds like a real guy.
•I can clearly understand what Quark is saying, but now it sounds too human =(
I haven't seen Ghaleon yet, but I really liked his voice in the PS1 version, as did everyone else :lol: let's see what SSH has to offer.

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Alunissage » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:32 am

jay_are wrote:•Luna sounds more natural when speaking, but why did they keep both old Luna's singing voice and the new one?
If they changed it, they should have changed it everywhere. :O

You know that Luna's singing and Luna's speaking were done by two different people in SSSC, right?

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Lunar Eclipse » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:24 am

I think he's referring to the fact that they use the original, lower quality voice sample of her song in some places (for instance, when you first hear her singing coming from the springs) while you hear the new voice sample in many other places (during the four heroes' scenario, in battle, at the spring itself, etc.). I don't really notice it as much when I play directly on the PSP, but when I have it hooked up to a monitor with better speakers, it's pretty obvious which is which.

As for the loading times, if you're really waiting for ten seconds, there's something wrong with your PSP. It's nowhere near that when just transitioning between rooms. It's a few seconds at most for me.
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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby jay_are » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:45 am

Alunissage,

I did know in SSSC the voice is done by two different people (only cause I saw it in the making-of! and not cause I noticed it)


Lunar Eclipse,

Yup, that's exactly what i meant, they used different voice samples. Strange!
I hope to GOD that you're right about the loading time :P
I'm about to record a comparison soon!
I'll time it from the moment the character comes in touch with a door
until you can move in the next room. 8-) For EACH version.
*is very demanding at times*

edit: I did the comparison just for this review thread!
http://s957.photobucket.com/albums/ae53/veelk2010/Games/?action=view&current=Lunar_SSS_doors.flv
Video quality is a bit messy, but i hope its not too bad.
I may complain about this problem in SSH but i've been getting used to it now anyways.
Last edited by jay_are on Mon May 31, 2010 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby Aaron » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:19 am

lol every version got longer and longer. Sheesh.

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Re: My Lunar: SSH review 6/10

Postby jay_are » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:52 pm

I played the Demo version just to try this!
The loading time between screens reduced to around 3 seconds!! That's around 5 seconds less.
It's a lot much better, I wouldnt have complained if the real one was like that.
Now I wonder if it's just my PSP having trouble reading discs... can anyone else try this?


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