Idiots + September 11 = Uber Idiots.

[Kizyr]

Im getting ready to be insulted and everything but I do think the government did do something. And do you guys actually read do information and stuff before ruling out other peoples opionions

Read the thread first before making that sort of blanket judgment.

Check the link that DBD put up. At the end is a set of 3-4 links that include technical information which, very clearly, discredits all the primary claims made by most conspiracy theorists.

Now, in your defense, you've given a total of six lines stating your opinion, and that "stuff doesn't add up". Care to tell us what stuff? Care to tell us how said 'stuff' doesn't add up? Care to say why you think the government was behind it all? Care to back up your own ideas at all, or, do you just feel like tossing out labels? KF

[AbsoluteAlex]

Let me tell you things definately add up. I went to a college with a view of the manhattan skyline. I was on the waterfront at the time the first plane struck. I heard the explosion and SAW the second plane and the explosion. I dont want to hurt any conspiracy theorists feelings, but if you do not believe that then im sorry but you are plain ignorant. I find it offensive that some people believe our government did this. There were definately no missiles and no explosives involved in this attack. I can tell you from my own eyes, I saw airplanes. I clearly saw steel which reached its yield point from overheating (from the JP-A or JP-5 fuel most likely and the flames). Believing that our government did this is just clear ignorance in my opinion. Its perfectly alright to have your own opinion, but when your opinion implicates others in what they clearly did not do, then your opinion lacks merit. Blindly making accusations is dangerous. I want you to provide me with examples of how things dont add up cause from my personal experiences, they do.

[Diz]

Let me tell you things definately add up. I went to a college with a view of the manhattan skyline. I was on the waterfront at the time the first plane struck. I heard the explosion and SAW the second plane and the explosion. I dont want to hurt any conspiracy theorists feelings, but if you do not believe that then im sorry but you are plain ignorant. I find it offensive that some people believe our government did this. There were definately no missiles and no explosives involved in this attack. I can tell you from my own eyes, I saw airplanes. I clearly saw steel which reached its yield point from overheating (from the JP-A or JP-5 fuel most likely and the flames). Believing that our government did this is just clear ignorance in my opinion. Its perfectly alright to have your own opinion, but when your opinion implicates others in what they clearly did not do, then your opinion lacks merit. Blindly making accusations is dangerous. I want you to provide me with examples of how things dont add up cause from my personal experiences, they do.

To all who posted after me sorry if i sounded stupid or ignorant. But I mean I dont even know for sure. I mean sure I know terrorist hijacked planes and crahsed it and all that. Im nto saying thats not true as it all is. But all I'm saying is the gov had some part. EVEn if its a small part like knowing and not telling the people of america even if its something like that. Im not one of those extremest who say that neevr happened and missles and stuff but the gov either had to know and didnt say nothin or something.

P.S- Im ready for all the bashing

[Kizyr]

To all who posted after me sorry if i sounded stupid or ignorant. But I mean I dont even know for sure. I mean sure I know terrorist hijacked planes and crahsed it and all that. Im nto saying thats not true as it all is. But all I'm saying is the gov had some part. EVEn if its a small part like knowing and not telling the people of america even if its something like that.

Whatever you believe, that's fine. But you don't say anything other than stating your opinion. Do you want to back any of that up? Why do you think the government had knowledge of the attacks? Why do you think they'd allow for them to happen if they did?

No one's really going to bash you (nor has anyone done so thus far). But that's only because you haven't said anything yet other than a couple of lines saying that you think the government had a part, and adding vague phrases like "don't you think..." or "it doesn't add up". Not to mention you so readily discounted the opinions of everyone on these boards when, well, we've actually been speaking based on real evidence, personal experiences, and common sense. KF

[Diz]

To all who posted after me sorry if i sounded stupid or ignorant. But I mean I dont even know for sure. I mean sure I know terrorist hijacked planes and crahsed it and all that. Im nto saying thats not true as it all is. But all I'm saying is the gov had some part. EVEn if its a small part like knowing and not telling the people of america even if its something like that.

Whatever you believe, that's fine. But you don't say anything other than stating your opinion. Do you want to back any of that up? Why do you think the government had knowledge of the attacks? Why do you think they'd allow for them to happen if they did?

No one's really going to bash you (nor has anyone done so thus far). But that's only because you haven't said anything yet other than a couple of lines saying that you think the government had a part, and adding vague phrases like "don't you think..." or "it doesn't add up". Not to mention you so readily discounted the opinions of everyone on these boards when, well, we've actually been speaking based on real evidence, personal experiences, and common sense. KF

Yeah its nto that I have facts nor said that I did. The only thing is that I have an open mind about it. Like I said im nto an extremist I know that everything did happen by terrorist and everythign. But I just THINK (think personally no facts) that maybe (not saying fact) the gov knew something and didnt wana let it out cuz it would be mass panic no one, would fly, they would shut down the buildings, and it would be chaos all over the nation. Thats just my opinion that maybe might happen. Then again im only 16 so it could also be ignorance of young age.

Diz

[phyco126]

To all who posted after me sorry if i sounded stupid or ignorant. But I mean I dont even know for sure. I mean sure I know terrorist hijacked planes and crahsed it and all that. Im nto saying thats not true as it all is. But all I'm saying is the gov had some part. EVEn if its a small part like knowing and not telling the people of america even if its something like that.

Whatever you believe, that's fine. But you don't say anything other than stating your opinion. Do you want to back any of that up? Why do you think the government had knowledge of the attacks? Why do you think they'd allow for them to happen if they did?

No one's really going to bash you (nor has anyone done so thus far). But that's only because you haven't said anything yet other than a couple of lines saying that you think the government had a part, and adding vague phrases like "don't you think..." or "it doesn't add up". Not to mention you so readily discounted the opinions of everyone on these boards when, well, we've actually been speaking based on real evidence, personal experiences, and common sense. KF

Yeah its nto that I have facts nor said that I did. The only thing is that I have an open mind about it. Like I said im nto an extremist I know that everything did happen by terrorist and everythign. But I just THINK (think personally no facts) that maybe (not saying fact) the gov knew something and didnt wana let it out cuz it would be mass panic no one, would fly, they would shut down the buildings, and it would be chaos all over the nation. Thats just my opinion that maybe might happen. Then again im only 16 so it could also be ignorance of young age.

Diz

One problem with that, if it was true, then the government still messed up. 9/11 caused chaos nation wide, cause massive panic, and essentially shut down the nation, and by the time it was all said an done, no one flew for several days due to the government shutting all air traffic down (aside from fighter air craft, the president, and I believe [but can't confirm] the air marshels)

[DeathBeforeDenial]

Diz, I thank you for being forthright and honest, usually those who have a revisionist or dissenting opinion of different historical events are uber-defensive and arrogant. I thank you for being open minded.

However I must argue that to be open-minded is not a license to an opinion, it is a license to examine evidence, and not have an opinion at the time. To have an opinion you must have a reason, and to have reason you must have a foundation in in either personal preference or facts depending on what the opinion is regarding. Music for example can be an opinion based on personal preference. An opinion about the destruction of the World Trade Center, I'm afraid, must be rooted in some sort of evidence from a reputable source. You, or anyone else is not validated in an opinion as long as you have not chosen to review the eveidence on both sides, which is why I will provide a link to the various 9/11 conspiracy organizations and materials as well.

Now I challenge you Diz, and any of you who may assume the U.S. government may have had a hand in this. Research this issue, both sides, watch the Loose Change videos as I did (No matter how disgusting I found them to be), take the time from playing video games or watching TV and commit yourself to actually learning something, and take pride that you were not fed information like a sheep. To be quite honest there was a time where it seemed plausible that the U.S. Govt. played a role in this, but after exhaustive searches of different information produced by both independent and federally funded research I came to the realization that the conspiracy theories are based in nothing more than paranoid fantasies. They are validated by circumstantial evidence that when looked at rationally actually backs up the 9/11 Comission's Reports.

So please continue to be open minded, and never be satisfied with the answers that the people around you peddle, mine, and anyone elses in this topic included.


"Loose Change" Guide

Popular Mechanics: Debunks 9/11 Myths

NIST 9/11 Fact Sheet

9/11 Myths
An honorable quote from their frontpage:
But does this make us an authority? No. If we’ve an overall message here, it’s check things for yourself. Don’t trust a site just because it’s telling you what you want to believe. Don’t believe us without evaluating our arguments and checking the references we provide, either (we’re as likely to make mistakes as anyone else). Look into the claims yourself, discover both sides of the argument, and make your own mind up. The truth deserves nothing less.

Alternative (Conspiracy) 9/11 Theories

[Diz]

To all who posted after me sorry if i sounded stupid or ignorant. But I mean I dont even know for sure. I mean sure I know terrorist hijacked planes and crahsed it and all that. Im nto saying thats not true as it all is. But all I'm saying is the gov had some part. EVEn if its a small part like knowing and not telling the people of america even if its something like that.

Whatever you believe, that's fine. But you don't say anything other than stating your opinion. Do you want to back any of that up? Why do you think the government had knowledge of the attacks? Why do you think they'd allow for them to happen if they did?

No one's really going to bash you (nor has anyone done so thus far). But that's only because you haven't said anything yet other than a couple of lines saying that you think the government had a part, and adding vague phrases like "don't you think..." or "it doesn't add up". Not to mention you so readily discounted the opinions of everyone on these boards when, well, we've actually been speaking based on real evidence, personal experiences, and common sense. KF

Yeah its nto that I have facts nor said that I did. The only thing is that I have an open mind about it. Like I said im nto an extremist I know that everything did happen by terrorist and everythign. But I just THINK (think personally no facts) that maybe (not saying fact) the gov knew something and didnt wana let it out cuz it would be mass panic no one, would fly, they would shut down the buildings, and it would be chaos all over the nation. Thats just my opinion that maybe might happen. Then again im only 16 so it could also be ignorance of young age.

Diz

One problem with that, if it was true, then the government still messed up. 9/11 caused chaos nation wide, cause massive panic, and essentially shut down the nation, and by the time it was all said an done, no one flew for several days due to the government shutting all air traffic down (aside from fighter air craft, the president, and I believe [but can't confirm] the air marshels)

All true like I said I'm not 100% sure and I wont be ever. I mean its kinda odd to em I used to see them all the time across the river now there gone. I just trying to be a so called "Truth Seaker" I guess please forgive my ignorance

[phyco126]

Personally, I would love to see one of the towers of the WTC rebuilt, just so we can fly a 747 air craft fully loaded with fuel into it, just to shut up those who think the government planted exploses in the building.

Unfortunately, even if that happened people who then say that explosives where put into THAT building as well to try to fool the public. No different than me wanting NASA or Europe to send a high definition "spy" satallite to the Moon to take pictures to proove that we really did land on the moon. Even if we did that, people would say the photos where either altered, or that we never sent a satallite over to the moon to begin with. Ugh.

[DeathBeforeDenial]

Well the fact is Phyco, that you can never truly replicate the events of that day that led to the collapse of the WTC. No controlled experiement could ever truly replicate the events of that day, there is just no way to do it. The only way to find truth is to examine the evidence objectively and come to a rational conclusion based off of said evidence, and refuse to be led around by the nose.

Especially in this day and age where there is digital equipment and clever editing techniques. Michael Moore has show us how easily those tools can be used to mislead the public.

[Diz]

Personally, I would love to see one of the towers of the WTC rebuilt, just so we can fly a 747 air craft fully loaded with fuel into it, just to shut up those who think the government planted exploses in the building.

Unfortunately, even if that happened people who then say that explosives where put into THAT building as well to try to fool the public. No different than me wanting NASA or Europe to send a high definition "spy" satallite to the Moon to take pictures to proove that we really did land on the moon. Even if we did that, people would say the photos where either altered, or that we never sent a satallite over to the moon to begin with. Ugh.

Forgive me I have no true fact and I'm probably wrong. But I will continue to find and look up info and maybe come back with some sort of valid information. I have seen and looked at all those links before you posted them and once more forgive my ignorance and hopefully I will be able to find some fact to either shut myself up or at least something to have motive on.

[Aaron]

well...assuming u could rebuild the freakin towers...

you have to take into account the structural damage from the WTC: Bombing in the 90's

and

we dont even know how fast the planes were going or the amount of fuel...

or the amount of weight in the structure at the time of impact...(like how many ppl/chairs/desks/vaults/elevators)

you could calculate the strength of the building from existing plans but thats it...

=\

but

I think u could acurately do this if you modeled it to scale......just smaller you know...like movie models.

[phyco126]

Most of what you said can actually be caculated based off videos and simple mathmatics (to gauge fuel and even weight of the towers.)

As for technology, yes, we have the technology to make realistic edits. We can probably create a digital White House and have a digital plane crash into it. If it was done properly, then it could easily fool people. But when you have thousands, if not millions of people who witnessed the event live, so I doubt that technology could have "painted" a plane to cover up a missle or whatever in someone's eyes. This isn't Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Project XD

[Aaron]

bro'ski

I work in the building deptment in a major california city &...

I dont think it can be done