Jerry Falwell passed away...

[DeathBeforeDenial]

When you're someone in the public light, the effects of what you is what people notice, which isn't always proportional to what you invest your time in. Say, a President can spend all his time working on fixing health care, but in the end his election can be determined by the state of the economy, or what he chose to do with foreign policy, or any number of other issues. When you choose to step into the public light, like with Falwell, those are the sorts of things you have to accept. KF

I agree, when you put yourself in the public light you become what (typically) your opponents say about you, and what the media chooses to print/air. Clinton will forever be know as the guy who had an affair while in the White House and lied about it, regardless of anything else he ever did. Why? Because of the media circus.

But that doesn't make it right, media spotlight or not. Should every man be judged by the most foolish things he has ever done or said? No, I don't care if he is President, or a bum.

I don't care how much good you do for people with fundraising, the spreading of ideas like those that he spread just can't be made up for. Ideas are dangerous, whether we like it or not.

The vast majority of people listened to him for uplifting messages of faith, hope, and love. And 99.9% of the time that is what they got. Taking a few quotes and acting as though this guy is some sort of Antichrist is a crazy leap to put it lightly. He did not take every chance to speak his most extreme of beliefs but typically fell back upon the "Faith, Hope and Love" sermons that are common on "The 700 Club". He was not a proto Fred Phelps which how you are descibing him.

This guy was pro-apartheid, need I say more?

An often cited, but seldom sourced argument. It was a Time Magazine article from 1985 after he visited South Africa. He said he opposed Apartheid, however did not agree with economic sanctions of divestment as he felt that would it would be counterproductive. He hoped that Botha would dismantle Apartheid because he felt that the alternatives were even worse (Soviet backed revolution or an even more repressive "Draconian" white-niche government). Though he did urge investment, but that hardly makes him "Pro-Apartheid".

*Edit*
Allow me to clarify, upon further review, both Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher both also opposed U.N. Sanctions against Apartheid up until I think it was 1987 when Thatcher began to impose them. Before that she called them "immoral". Also, both the U.S. and England had huge investments in South Africa, billions of dollars worth of U.S. investments were there. Jerry Falwell was just being a flunky to his conservative agenga and his good buddy Reagan.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

in this society, how is fred phelps not dead? you'd think someone would discriminate against discriminators and kill him (possibly with the irony). somebody needs to snuff him out.

[Ozone]

in this society, how is fred phelps not dead? you'd think someone would discriminate against discriminators and kill him (possibly with the irony). somebody needs to snuff him out.

Can I quote that?
'


Yeah, DBD, my research was a tich on the lacking side, I wrote that post in a rush. Personally, I still can't believe that people fell back on him of all people for messages of hope and love, and it's not that message that I have a problem with (obviously), but it's the fact that people then attribute the rest of what he says under the same basis of his hope and love message. There's something so conflicting about someone who can say something so vile as he has said spreading hate and love. Maybe it's just me who fails to see it, but, judging by other people's reactions, I highly doubt that. I also have problems trusting people who hold an influential position in a faith based organization/religion, mainly because having any structure to spirituality completely goes against what I believe (see Stigmata, or parts of the Gospel of Thomas if you want a really, really, really, really, really, really, etc. uncomplicated view of how I feel religion should be: "The Kingdom of God is within you and all about you, not in buildings of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood and I am there; lift a stone and you will find me.")

[DeathBeforeDenial]

I still can't believe that people fell back on him of all people for messages of hope and love, and it's not that message that I have a problem with (obviously),but it's the fact that people then attribute the rest of what he says under the same basis of his hope and love message. There's something so conflicting about someone who can say something so vile as he has said spreading hate and love.

A lot of the people who would hear those messages every Sunday never heard a lot of his other statements. Which needless to say was unfortunate, Falwell needed some serious accountabiliy because left to his own devices would just reaffirm his crazy doctorine. Plus Falwell's platform was never that big. Most of the time it was his buddy Pat Robertson that would get him TV appearances on TBN or appearing on news programs to apologize for some stupid comment he made, but aside form that he typically only had his church and handful of organizations that he created. And most of what he said like the whole "Tinky Winky is Gay" thing was laughed off as quackery as soon as it hit the news.

I also have problems trusting people who hold an influential position in a faith based organization/religion, mainly because having any structure to spirituality completely goes against what I believe

Well the structure to religion thing is a whole different debate, which I disagree with, but I do understand and agree that where organization and heirarchy exist, so does corruption. (In ALL things, religion, business, politics, unions) And just as a good business can turn into Enron, a good church can turn in a Westboro Baptist.

Which is a big reason why heirarchy needs to exist. There needs to be a governing body to root out and get rid of false teaching anf heresy. There's a reason the true Orthodox Church never had guys like Falwell around for very long, because they would hold a council and define a teaching as heretical and either convince the perpetrator of his mistake or excommunicate him.

Too much attention gets paid to Jerry Falwell much of that attention coming from opponents. He and the few others like him ruin a beatiful thing for people who chose to write it off as BS just because of a handful of individuals. As my old Youth Pastor used to tell me, imagine bad preaching as the most delicious meal, perfect in every way, yet it's served to you on a trash can.

Ugh, I'm kind of all over the place, sorry but it's 3:00 AM and it's tough to organize my thoughts.

[NallOne]

I can't help but feel numb at his passing. Falwell and so many like him preach hate against me without knowing me. They judge me as though they are God. I may not be a Christian, but in my deepest heart I feel I lead a good, worthy Christian life and should there be a God I feel as though I would as worthy of Heaven as any Christian.

That's off topic, I guess, but still...

And Fred Phelps is nothing compared to Falwell. That difference is that the Phelps family are mocked by Christian and Non-Christians alike - A great deal of people agree with Falwell's views and that, quite frankly, terrifies me.

Extremist Christians are just as dangerous as Extremist Muslims. If only the media and everyone else agreed and stopped throwing Muslims under the bus.

Falwell was a bad man and if words could wound he would've injured many in his lifetime...and he did. I won't miss him, though my thoughts go to his family and friends.

This is so terribly off topic and offensive. I apologize.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

yeah, it isn't safe to go anywhere anymore with all of those christian suicide bombers.

[Angelalex242]

Well, Christians HAVE been known to bomb abortion clinics...

But they generally aren't suicidal about it, as I recall.

[phyco126]

Please, there ARE extremist christians out in the world. Bombers, kidnappers, killers, all for the sake of their so called religion. Doesn't anyone watch the back pages of news websites or papers? You will occasionally hear of a christian being put to death in malasia or somewhere around that area of the world for bombing innocent people... JUST like an extremist muslim.

I have a word for that, one that goes beyond religious borders... it's called terrorism.

Terrorism, not just for Exremist Muslims. God dang.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

if you took all of the christian extremists and pitted them against the extremist muslims, the muslims would beat them by a landslide. hey! light bulb! that would rock! christianity would be free of an embarrassment and at least SOME extremist muslims would die.

[phyco126]

Yet, somehow, I doubt that Extremist Muslims would win. We don't actually know their real numbers, but I'm sure their numbers are far lower than the media lets on.

[Ozone]

I think that they both have the potential to be very bad. The only reason that the Christian Extremists aren't as bad is because they don't run things and would quickly be put down in the United States. There's also the fact that most people in the US have more to lose when they die than people in the Middle East do at this point.

[GhaleonOne]

if you took all of the christian extremists and pitted them against the extremist muslims, the muslims would beat them by a landslide. hey! light bulb! that would rock! christianity would be free of an embarrassment and at least SOME extremist muslims would die.

Are you talking in current time frame or a historical time frame? In a historical time frame, keep in mind that us Christian's unfortunately have the Crusades and Inquisition under our belts.

Point is though, man kills man, not God.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

current.

[Kizyr]

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Res ... ce_Army</a>

People who think that it's just Muslims who are motivated by extremist zealotry to do criminal acts are usually under that impression because they receive very narrow, limited information.

I could just as easily link, say, Hindu extremists groups in India or other paramilitary groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, or perhaps extremist Israeli groups, but the LRA is just the first thing that happened to come to mind.

It's the same sort of blindness that leads people to believe that religion has been the cause of the bloodiest wars when, in reality, things like class conflict have religion beat by a long-shot. KF

[Ozone]

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Res ... ce_Army</a>

People who think that it's just Muslims who are motivated by extremist zealotry to do criminal acts are usually under that impression because they receive very narrow, limited information.

I could just as easily link, say, Hindu extremists groups in India or other paramilitary groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, or perhaps extremist Israeli groups, but the LRA is just the first thing that happened to come to mind.

It's the same sort of blindness that leads people to believe that religion has been the cause of the bloodiest wars when, in reality, things like class conflict have religion beat by a long-shot. KF

I was just going to say that --;

Anyway, good point, Kiz.

I should note that narcissistic injury is a primary cause of most of the world's problems today, and that can stem from class inequality to more complicated instance, like the ones stemmed by Hindu Nationalism and Muscular Christianity in India during British imperial rule there. I should also note that narcissistic injury was a primary cause of World War II.