Unwarranted Wiretapping?

[DeathBeforeDenial]

*Doesn't read beyond Page 1*

There has never been a government in the history of the world that has ever been comfortable giving away power it had tricked/coerced/scared the people into giving them. It's not about just wiretapping, or the elements of the Patriot act that allow warrantless seraches of houses (Section 213), getting a search warrant without probable cause (Section 218), and occasions in which the FBI has been discovered spying on charities, protest groups (Including peace demonstrators) and religious institutions. It's about the fact that the government WILL NOT give this power back without a fight as has been seen every year the Patriot Act is broadened and renewed, even as American opinon of it continues to fall.

Giving government power that it will not relenquish is so foolish, because it puts freedom at stake which is more important than safety. And what seem to be minor infringements today could set precedent that in 30 years could be infringing upon everyone from criminals to political dissidents.

Look at the term "Domestic Terrorism" (Lifted from Full Text of Patriot Act)

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

A vague and ambiguous terminology like that opens all sorts of unpleasant doors that unfortunately may never be closed. Don't be selfish and ignore the future implications of what we do today. This is why I hate anti-gun people. They rank on the same level as Patriot Act supporters. Totally ignorant of history and the necessity of an armed populace.

I'll spare the quotes of those who escaped the tyranny of England, but it is worth noting that those men fought and died to create what so many today are fine with sacrificing. They lived in a time where they put their lives on the line to stand up for freedom, they have the authority to speak on the illusion of safety and the importance of freedom because they were a part of one of the defining moments of how we today look at Western politics. They have that right, certainly moreso than any political pundit (Right or Left) or politician.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

the quote IS an arrogant crock. i hate how you keep bringing up that he's a founding father. would you accept it if he had said the earth is flat?

I bring up that he is a founding father because the founding fathers generally agreed that liberty and our rights as humans mattered enough to face death and fight against the crown for independance. Granted there where other reasons too... but the point is you are pretty much calling something that someone said that is true a bunch of bull. Not to mention it is someone who also stood up for the liberties and freedoms we enjoy today. It is NOT bull. Period. If he said the Earth is flat, then that is bull, there is NO truth to that. Yet there IS truth in that quote.

it doesn't matter what he did or what he stood for when we're talking about his laughable statement regarding what people deserve in regards to differing points of view. it may be patriotic, but that can't change that it's an opinionated answer...opinionated in a nazi direction. saying someone doesn't deserve safety is absurd.

[Kizyr]

Thread has been locked by Godwin's Law.

Oh, and, it's going on long enough. Everyone on this thread has been in agreement anyhow, except for the one person who doesn't seem to care. KF