The Internet Police Strikes Again!

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:25 pm

http://techwag.com/index.php/2007/10/19 ... shut-down/

=(

Post by **Kizyr** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:41 pm

Dangit.

BBC News only said "a prominent site" was shut down via that raid. I didn't know it was tv-links. KF

Werefrog · Post by **Werefrog** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:56 pm

My friend said that the music sharing site he goes to was shut down yesterday as well. I wonder if they're connected.

Guild_Premier_Ghaleon · Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:19 pm

I'm actually fine with it. Don't get me wrong, I loved the site, it was very convenient and I got a good chunk of my anime fix from it, but recently, after Geneon nearly announced it would be pulling out of the US anime market, I'v been rethinking things. Usually, if I download a series and enjoy it I tend to purchase it, but not everyone does. Online downloading is making it rough for dubbed anime to be released, because theres just not enough money rolling in. I certainly don't want to see one of the best dubbing companies go under, especially with the new Fate/Stay Night DVD's rolling out. ; ;

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:35 pm

Well, one way or another, they are not gonna get my money. I just don't have it, but I also have a problem with missing episodes of my favorite TV show or anime, and it was a good place to find old music videos of songs you forgot about anyway. I hope a good copy cat site comes around, I really don't see a problem with it anyway.

I mean, it's not like we could save them to our hard drives, or burn them to DVDs, nor could we have high quality or anything of the sort. Often the shows there just wouldn't work, etc etc etc.

Not to mention we all watch TV relatively free, so what's the difference between watching TV for free... and watching a TV program for free via the internet?

Oh wait, I forgot, no ads, even though MOST of those shows arn't even being aired right now. Oh wait, I forgot, we have to buy the DVDs, which cost a huge amont of money for season sets not to mention we often have to wait years to buy a complete set. Oh wait, that's IF it comes to DvD, and if it did, IF you can find it for sell outside of Ebay or some high priced internet or specialty store.

Edit: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9066/TVLin ... rested%21/ <---- good article on it, not to mention it provides links to other sites like it. I think they provided those links on purpose, lol, seeing as how they made a point to say that if linking is illegal.... hehehe

Post by **Kizyr** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:11 pm

Werefrog wrote:My friend said that the music sharing site he goes to was shut down yesterday as well. I wonder if they're connected.

Re-reading the BBC articles, they mentioned the site OiNK as being shut down. That's probably the music-sharing site you're referring to.

I do think that tv-links.co.uk is related. If not by the same folks behind it (having been arrested/charged/C&Ded or whatever), then at least by the same crackdown being done.

GPG wrote:I'm actually fine with it. Don't get me wrong, I loved the site, it was very convenient and I got a good chunk of my anime fix from it, but recently, after Geneon nearly announced it would be pulling out of the US anime market, I'v been rethinking things.

I never used it for anime, but it was nice to be able to catch any episodes I missed of British drama series.

It's really irritating having to go months before seeing a particular episode of, say, Robin Hood, because I happened to have been out of town the same weekend they were airing the season finale. For some other series (Torchwood, e.g.), networks are starting to catch on and will re-air the episode 2-3 more times the following week in case I'm out one night.

I'll still buy the series I really enjoy, however. I picked up Coupling (regardless of the entire series being on tv-links at one point), and I'll probably start getting the first 3 seasons of (the new) Doctor Who while I'm at it. Maybe Robin Hood, but I'm not sure on that--depends on what I think of the second season (whenever it's aired in the US). KF

Werefrog · Post by **Werefrog** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:16 pm

Kizyr wrote: Re-reading the BBC articles, they mentioned the site OiNK as being shut down. That's probably the music-sharing site you're referring to.

That would be the one. You took my memory on a 5K jog, Kiz... whatever that means.

Kizyr wrote: I'll still buy the series I really enjoy, however. I picked up Coupling (regardless of the entire series being on tv-links at one point), and I'll probably start getting the first 3 seasons of (the new) Doctor Who while I'm at it. Maybe Robin Hood, but I'm not sure on that--depends on what I think of the second season (whenever it's aired in the US). KF

The new Doctor Who series is too rich for my blood. Last I checked it was around 100 dollars for one season. That's too much for around 10 hours of entertainment. Granted, I realize that I probably pay more for that per hour for video games, but it still doesn't feel right to pay that much for a DVD.

The best value I ever received on any entertainment was that time I bought the Never-Ending Story. Every day it just keeps going up and up in value.

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:09 am

Don't worry. There are plenty of spares out there.

As soon as I went there a couple days ago and saw that it was down I found like 6 others that do the same thing.

God bless Sweden and their loose legal policy in regards to these kinds of websites.

NallOne · Post by **NallOne** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:03 am

phyco126 wrote:Well, one way or another, they are not gonna get my money. I just don't have it

This.

I don't download copyright content because I don't want to pay for something. I do it because I don't have the money. If I did, I'd support them!

I used to have several full Anime on my computer, as well as the entire TV series Roswell, among other things. I loved them, and when I got the money, I deleted them and purchased the DVDs.

The companies are not saving money this way. The music industry is a perfect example of this. They act as those the losses are enormous - but records are still being broken for sales! The same goes for movies.

If people enjoy something they will, most times in my experience, purchase it when they can because they are aware that not supporting the companies means they less of a chance of getting more from them in the future.

The only people being punished by all of this are the people who are just going to do without regardless. It's just stupid. Not to mention it alienates a lot of people who might not otherwise have even KNOWN of certain things if they hadn't stumbled onto it online and gotten interested enough to shell out the dough.

Oh well. That's business.

Benevolent_Ghaleon · Post by **Benevolent_Ghaleon** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:15 am

NallOne wrote:
phyco126 wrote:Well, one way or another, they are not gonna get my money. I just don't have it
This.

I don't download copyright content because I don't want to pay for something. I do it because I don't have the money. If I did, I'd support them!

I used to have several full Anime on my computer, as well as the entire TV series Roswell, among other things. I loved them, and when I got the money, I deleted them and purchased the DVDs.

The companies are not saving money this way. The music industry is a perfect example of this. They act as those the losses are enormous - but records are still being broken for sales! The same goes for movies.

If people enjoy something they will, most times in my experience, purchase it when they can because they are aware that not supporting the companies means they less of a chance of getting more from them in the future.

The only people being punished by all of this are the people who are just going to do without regardless. It's just stupid. Not to mention it alienates a lot of people who might not otherwise have even KNOWN of certain things if they hadn't stumbled onto it online and gotten interested enough to shell out the dough.

Oh well. That's business.

wow! i was pretty much gonna say all of this.

although things are this way now, do you think that'll change when everything is downloaded anyway as opposed to physically owned?

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:38 am

I do believe we are moving rather fast towards pure digital ownership rather than physical, but I doubt we would see that purity for many more years. Still, it is alarming, I like going out and buying a DVD in it's case, rather than just keeping a protected version on my harddrive. The harddrive fails, it's gone, unless I buy it again or the company has some re-DL of it, but usually that can tread on shaky ground on being able to redownload it. My best friend would buy music via major online services, but when his HD crashed he could no longer play them, even though he backed them up to his external drive. =/

Still, one thing I have always wondered. My whole life of reading laws and codes, and being told of said laws, and what not, has always led me to believe that Copyrighted materials could be copied and whatever as long as no one made a profit from it. Was that originally the case until the 1990s or was it always the case of if it was copyrighted, you would be arrested and sent to the 9th level of hell for your dasterdly crimes that obviously has sent millions of people to their death.

Werefrog · Post by **Werefrog** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:57 am

What service did your friend buy his music from? If it was iTunes, he should have been able to use his backup. The only way that he wouldn't be able to use his backup would be if he had already put it on the max amount of computers.

Amazon is offering an excellent DRM-free service right now. The iTunes service is starting to catch up. At first iTunes was only offering EMI music, but I think they've expanded. iTunes doesn't seem to be going after the indie-labels for their service which seems like a big mistake to me.

That went off on a tangent somewhat (I'm hopped up on the caffeine and listening to some high energy music tonight). But the point is... if you're going to download a song check Amazon first (they're the cheapest), then check iTunes if Amazon doesn't have it (but only buy the DRM-free stuff). Finally, if neither have it in a DRM-free form, buy the CD. It's the highest quality anyway (personally, I'm willing to sacrifice quality for a cheaper more convenient medium, but I understand if you're not).

And my favorite idea for digital media distribution was proposed by a manger of a famous band (I think Pink Floyd, but I'm not sure at all)turned economist. He proposed that everyone who listens to music digitally pay 40 dollars a year. This would give the end user access to every song. At the end of a time period (maybe a month?), the money that was collected to grant access is divided up amongst the artists based on how many of their songs were downloaded.

Sounds good to me.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:14 am

I honestly can't remember, Rhapsody or something. It was about 2 years ago, I don't recall any company being lenient on songs at that time.

In all honesty, I distrust digital music. I mean, I have no problems DLing it for free, but buying it, what's stopping me is two things:

1. No online service has every song I want, and that's a pain in the arse to give your CC # to 6 different online stores just to grab a couple 99 cent songs from each.
2. They put a limit on what you can do. I'm sorry, I paid for the song, if I want to put it on my phone, iPod, laptop, desktop, CD, casset, 8track, 16 RPM record, phonograph, graph chart, printer, car, tire, engine, door, moon, stars, or anything else x10000000000 I have that right.
3. I can just buy the CD and rip at the best quality possible, and have full access to those songs that allow me to do whatever I want, as I mentioned in #2.
4. Format wars! Why can't I just get MP3? It's friggin universal! I don't care about how many KBs of space I just saved so I can squeeze another song onto my iPod, and I really can't tell quality over the so called "HD" formats and MP3.

Fix 1, 2, and 4, THEN I'll start buying online

Werefrog · Post by **Werefrog** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:39 am

Amazon's service fixes 2 and 4 (the format wars mentioned in point 4 is actually a result of point 2). And they're working on 1. However, it's kind of unreasonable to expect every single song ever to be on a digital service.

Right now Amazon has EMI, Geffen, some Capitol and a slew of indie labels.

And I must ask, what bitrate do you rip your CDs at (or do you use a lossless format?)? Amazon sells theirs at 256 Kb (I'm not sure whether that b should be capitalized). I don't think that most people rip at that rate. My friend who is always carrying about fidelity only rips at 196.

7-9 dollars for a DRM-free album at a high quality bitrate is a pretty good deal in my opinion.

DezoPenguin · Post by **DezoPenguin** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:20 pm

phyco126 wrote: Still, one thing I have always wondered. My whole life of reading laws and codes, and being told of said laws, and what not, has always led me to believe that Copyrighted materials could be copied and whatever as long as no one made a profit from it. Was that originally the case until the 1990s or was it always the case of if it was copyrighted, you would be arrested and sent to the 9th level of hell for your dasterdly crimes that obviously has sent millions of people to their death.

That was never the case. Outside of "fair use" exceptions (parody, small quotations used in reviews or citations, etc.) copyright law has never permitted distribution of copyrighted material. The digital revolution has, for the first time, brought about the ability to distribute pirated material (a) of similar quality to the original, as opposed to excessively degraded bootlegs, and (b) with great ease and efficiency and in previously undreamed-of numbers.

The fundamental theory involved is that intellectual property belongs to the creator. If I write a book, paint a picture, compose a symphony, produce a movie, or whatnot, copyright law protects my rights to (a) squeeze every last dollar of profit out of my creation and (b) to see that my creation is used in the way I want it to be.

Consider: I have a CD. I copy that CD and give the copy to my friend. No one makes any profit. However, the creator has just lost a potential sale. That friend won't then go out and buy that CD at a music store.

Or, remember how Disney used to deliberately take its VHS tapes off the market, making only certain movies available at any given time for purchase? This was part of a conscious economic plan on their part, as was their right as copyright-holder.

Or, for a non-financial example, consider Bill Watterson, creator of Calvin and Hobbes. He always refused any marketing of his characters, based not upon economic reasons but artistic ones. As copyright-holder, that was his right.

Essentially, intellectual property/copyright law, as established by national and international laws, establishes a specific priority: under the law, the creator's right to his/her/its creation outweighs the right of the public to have/experience that creation. Period. Whether or not that policy is the correct one is a matter which can be debated, but it exists. To what extent one engages in infringement of intellectual property rights is a question between one's personal ethics, conscience, and fear of the potential consequences, but there's no point in kidding oneself about it being anything but a violation of the law.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:28 pm

Ah, thanks DezoP.

I don't have expectations to have every song on the net available for digital download, but I do expect for the major groups to be there. When I went to try iTunes many years ago, they didn't any of the popular bands that I wanted to DL songs from, including Linkin Park.

DezoPenguin · Post by **DezoPenguin** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:05 pm

Yeah, that's extremely frustrating--one of the benefits of the digital age is that there's no reason for music to go out of print (yeah, so I'm still bitter that I can't get the full-length version of the "Utawarerumono" opening theme...

) once the physical media is removed from the equation, so it drives me crazy when music--especially recent music--isn't available for some reason.

Benevolent_Ghaleon · Post by **Benevolent_Ghaleon** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:22 pm

what about people like me? i want my video game music (original, remixed AND orchestrated) and my jpop and anything else a lot of people find odd.

think i'll be able to download Zelda LTTP dark world theme on itunes? i doubt it.

Post by **Alunissage** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:36 pm

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp
http://www.cocoebiz.com
http://www.otaku.com
http://www.gamemusic.com

I think I have the LttP dark world field music on at least two soundtrack CDs.

If buying CDs and ripping them yourself doesn't work for you, well, we don't always get what we want.

Werefrog · Post by **Werefrog** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:53 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:what about people like me? i want my video game music (original, remixed AND orchestrated) and my jpop and anything else a lot of people find odd.

think i'll be able to download Zelda LTTP dark world theme on itunes? i doubt it.

Well, they have Final Fantasy soundtracks now (granted, it's the kind with nasty DRM) as well as two Mother 3 soundtracks, so I wouldn't rule it out quite yet. It probably has a better chance of happening than there ever being a legal release of Mother 3 coming stateside in a legal way.

I'm probably never going to play Mother 3 because I don't want to steal it. But I also feel that buying the import is rewarding Nintendo for screwing Earthbound fans over. Heck, even if I had the import I still couldn't do it legally since it's almost impossible to turn a GBA game into a ROM.

Yeah, the creator of Mother should be rewarded for his hard work over the years, but Nintendo isn't getting a cent of money for that game until they force NOA to translate it and release it.

This post turned into something completely different than the original intent. My apologies.

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