Obama needs to stop playing nice with people.

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Jenner
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Obama needs to stop playing nice with people.

Post by Jenner »

I am disappointed, he needs to stop being reasonable and compromising. Some of these issues are things we should not make deals on and cannot be distracted from. Obama knows better and I'm seriously discontent about this spinelessness. It's all well and good that he's willing to talk and listen and THINK but there are times when you DON'T and America can't afford to split hairs when it comes to cracking down on the banks, the mortgages, the credit cards and health care.

I call shenanigans. :x
Last edited by Jenner on Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by NallOne »

I'm done with Obama. Which is really disappointing and makes me really sad. Especially with his treatment of LGBT issues. DOMA, DADT, etc. Then his response to criticism of his inaction is to make this big deal out of some not-so-big legislation and expect us to just overlook the fact that is he still ignoring the major issues.

And that is JUST on LGBT issues. Don't even get me started on everything else.

His second term better involve the full legalization of gay marriage and marijuana or this is such a bust. :evil:
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by exigence »

NallOne wrote: His second term better involve the full legalization of gay marriage and marijuana or this is such a bust. :evil:
second term? :lol: fat chance. if this crap keeps up john wilkes booth and lee harvey oswald's zombies are going to join forces and bust a cap in obamas dome.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Ardent Fox »

Everyone wanted change. My job hangs in the balance as it stands and I'm in the military. With us pulling from Iraq, and funds getting taken from us, this means US soldiers are going to become more vulnerable to attacks while overseas. This is what we call a "no go." Regular Joe's like myself can't survive in Afghanistan with our armor as it is now, we're too bulky. Our armored transports are unreliable with all the MRAP roll-overs that take soldiers lives.

A lot of units didn't get a great deal of money this past fiscal year, nor are we looking to make enough this year. Our reenlistment bonuses are pretty much in the toilet and it's just not worth another four years when the change we need to survive we simply can't see on the horizon.

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by phyco126 »

Eh. I blame the conservatives from screaming too much "OBAMA IS A TERRORIST!!!" crap. Its really hard for me, I voted for him. Living and working in the freaking christian capital of the world blows when they find out who I voted for. "OMG Palin lost because of terrorist supporters like you! OMG! Don't you know hes a terrorist and evil?! OMG. You voted, you are stupid and your president will fail at his tasks and you will suffer but I won't because I'll be in heaven tee hee hee"

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

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The Birther movement has caused me to lose almost all faith in humanity.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

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My faith in humanity was lost in Iraq.

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

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Ardent Fox wrote:Everyone wanted change. My job hangs in the balance as it stands and I'm in the military. With us pulling from Iraq, and funds getting taken from us, this means US soldiers are going to become more vulnerable to attacks while overseas. This is what we call a "no go." Regular Joe's like myself can't survive in Afghanistan with our armor as it is now, we're too bulky. Our armored transports are unreliable with all the MRAP roll-overs that take soldiers lives.

A lot of units didn't get a great deal of money this past fiscal year, nor are we looking to make enough this year. Our reenlistment bonuses are pretty much in the toilet and it's just not worth another four years when the change we need to survive we simply can't see on the horizon.
When Obama made his military budget cuts, he did so in the upper tiers and actually put in more money for service people like yourself. I assume it's actually corruption among the brass that is screwing you, my friend. It's always been the way. Your body armor and armored vehicles have been crap from BEFORE Obama, because the US bought their soldiers supplies from vendors who are their pets who offered it for the lowest penny or donated the most to their friends. This is how politics work and it's rubbish. I think Obama's budget passed, but it's going to take some time to filter through all the corruption and the people skimming off the top. You're entitled to a lot more than you're getting Ard, but that's not Obama's fault.

What is Obama's fault is this concession and bargaining that we cannot afford.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Nobiyuki77 »

My view is it took 8 years to get into this mess, I'll give him more than 6 months.

If we're still nowhere in 2012, I may reconsider.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Ardent Fox »

Jenner wrote:
Ardent Fox wrote:Everyone wanted change. My job hangs in the balance as it stands and I'm in the military. With us pulling from Iraq, and funds getting taken from us, this means US soldiers are going to become more vulnerable to attacks while overseas. This is what we call a "no go." Regular Joe's like myself can't survive in Afghanistan with our armor as it is now, we're too bulky. Our armored transports are unreliable with all the MRAP roll-overs that take soldiers lives.

A lot of units didn't get a great deal of money this past fiscal year, nor are we looking to make enough this year. Our reenlistment bonuses are pretty much in the toilet and it's just not worth another four years when the change we need to survive we simply can't see on the horizon.
When Obama made his military budget cuts, he did so in the upper tiers and actually put in more money for service people like yourself. I assume it's actually corruption among the brass that is screwing you, my friend. It's always been the way. Your body armor and armored vehicles have been crap from BEFORE Obama, because the US bought their soldiers supplies from vendors who are their pets who offered it for the lowest penny or donated the most to their friends. This is how politics work and it's rubbish. I think Obama's budget passed, but it's going to take some time to filter through all the corruption and the people skimming off the top. You're entitled to a lot more than you're getting Ard, but that's not Obama's fault.

What is Obama's fault is this concession and bargaining that we cannot afford.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Benevolent_Ghaleon »

-Plantella- isn't in the filter? Waddayaknow

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by DevNall »

exigence wrote:second term? :lol: fat chance. if this crap keeps up john wilkes booth and lee harvey oswald's zombies are going to join forces and bust a cap in obamas dome.
Americans typically vote for incumbents, so I suspect he'll get a second term either way.

But this situation is not really a surprise to me.

Also, I want to throw out there, and this has nothing to do with Geitner's recent comments, but especially now with the way spending is being ratcheted up, a sizable middle-class tax increase will almost certainly be a necessity in the not distant future. Maybe not this term, but definitely within the next decade or two. Although it is definitely possible that instead of an income tax increase, it could take the form of a national VAT (if you don't know what that is, think of it has a 5-10% national sales tax on top of the state sales tax.)

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Theta »

Yeah, taxes so that the Man can take a jet to the next town. How about working on some better healthcare like you told us all back in the day.

Ah well, yet more proof that our system does not work in real life.
Last edited by Theta on Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

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Theta wrote:Yeah, taxes so that the Man can take a jet to the next town. How about working on some better healthcare like you told us all back in the day.
I'm pretty sure he is trying to get us better health care... that's why he's doing these town meetings that insurance companies, lobbyists, and think tanks have turned into a farce.

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Aaron »

I don't think Obama is being a "-Plantella-" he's getting a lot of what he said he would do done.

BTW as a side note: His stance on GLBT issues is the same as Bush's.

Anyone who thinks an America with Socialized medicine is a better America needs to do some homework. Socialized medicine is a horrible equalizer. It makes it so that everyone gets a chance. And, with that there are too many people and not enough doctors, nurses, medicine ect. What works for some country of 30 million people wont work for a country of 330 million people.

Here is a quick fact for you: What country has the highest longevity rate for Cancer patients?

Answer: the USA

It's not socialized medicine that will fix us. It'll have to be people preparing for themselves.

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by NallOne »

We have a larger population but we also have more doctors coming out of that population. Socialized medicine could easily work here. It could've worked here twenty years ago.

I'm just keeping mum on everything right now. I don't want to get my hopes up for health care reform, because I have faith in the Republicans that they'll screw it up once again.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

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Aaron wrote: Anyone who thinks an America with Socialized medicine is a better America needs to do some homework. Socialized medicine is a horrible equalizer. It makes it so that everyone gets a chance.
So let me boil this argument down for you: what you're saying is that only people with money should have a chance.

You know, I believe that for the most part capitalism is a good system. It provides people with incentives to work hard to make their lives better. But health care should not be one of them. We're not talking about an iPod or a video game or something like that. We're talking about someone's life here.

And even if we don't agree on the principles that socialism works for some things (like roads and schools and health care), we can see that the current system actually costs us more because people do not seek out preventative medicine. Someone who has early stages of cancer won't get it checked out because they don't have the money to. Then when it becomes inoperable, we lose out on this person's labor (not to mention his value as a human being), and the government may eventually pay for this person anyway when he qualifies for a government program due to not being able to work and losing his life savings. So... we get to pay for someone to die when could have paid a lot less for someone to live, continue to work, and pay taxes into the system.

And back to your cancer statistic, I wonder how the longevity of an uninsured cancer patient would look. Not good I'm guessing.

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Aaron »

First off...people without money get free health care already. It is illegal to not treat someone.

Boiling down my argument to something I didn't say is dishonest. Nobody would take a stance that only the rich are allowed health care.

Lemme give you some personal experience. My mom, has/had (it could come back any time) breast cancer. We can't afford any treatments. Yet we still get them because it is illegal to refuse service.

What socialized medicine does is equalize everything. If you have ever tried to get a permit from your local city, that would be the kind of system we would have to go through. It wouldn't matter if you are rich or poor. You would receive sub par treatment because everyone gets treatment. There would be quotas, and levels of necessity. I mean hell, why treat a 40 year old woman who doesn't work when a 20 year old woman who has cancer needs to be treated.

That is what socialized medicine will bring.

The statistic about the cancer patients still is valid because in Europe where EVERYONE has health care, your chances of surviving are much lower then in the USA. Why is that?

And honestly do you believe that the rich in Europe get the same treatment as the poor? Hell no! All it has become is a new tax burden for the poor put on by the gov't.

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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by NallOne »

Aaron wrote:First off...people without money get free health care already. It is illegal to not treat someone.
It isn't free health care. It is "we'll bill you later" health care. If someone who does not have health insurance gets sick, they do not get a free pass just because they can not afford it. They go into tremendous debt and spend the rest of their lives even more worse off than they were and paying off ridiculous medical bills until the day they die.

EDIT: As for the rest of your post, though I really didn't even want to respond to it ... the belief that socialized health care = subpar service is a myth. There are countless documented cases of people receiving FAR better treatment in, say, Canada than America for the same situation.

You're just using the Republican go-to arguments which are all a load of crap. They love to cite the waiting room lines in Canada - Uh, have you been to any inner city Hospital waiting rooms lately in America? We get to wait just as long and then PAY for it.
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Re: Obama needs to stop being such a -Plantella-.

Post by Nobiyuki77 »

Aaron wrote:First off...people without money get free health care already. It is illegal to not treat someone.

Boiling down my argument to something I didn't say is dishonest. Nobody would take a stance that only the rich are allowed health care.

Lemme give you some personal experience. My mom, has/had (it could come back any time) breast cancer. We can't afford any treatments. Yet we still get them because it is illegal to refuse service.

What socialized medicine does is equalize everything. If you have ever tried to get a permit from your local city, that would be the kind of system we would have to go through. It wouldn't matter if you are rich or poor. You would receive sub par treatment because everyone gets treatment. There would be quotas, and levels of necessity. I mean hell, why treat a 40 year old woman who doesn't work when a 20 year old woman who has cancer needs to be treated.

That is what socialized medicine will bring.

The statistic about the cancer patients still is valid because in Europe where EVERYONE has health care, your chances of surviving are much lower then in the USA. Why is that?

And honestly do you believe that the rich in Europe get the same treatment as the poor? Hell no! All it has become is a new tax burden for the poor put on by the gov't.
There is so much wrong with this I'm not entirely sure where to begin.

As NallOne said, there's no such thing as free health care. And if health care is so good here, then why do people go overseas for procedures they could get here all the time? Because it's the same care they'd get here, only waaaay cheaper.

Here's what continues to baffle me.

The argument I keep hearing constantly, and one that I can understand and sympathize with, is the fear of the government growing so large that it controls every aspect of our lives. I get that fear, it's a fear of not wanting to repeat the oppression of years past.

But here's what these people fail to (or refuse to) see. Everything you fear the government will become, corporations already are. They are so big and so powerful, that they've basically controlled the government for the last several years in the form of lobbyists and special interests. They've grown so big in fact, that when the markets collapse, they drag the rest of us down with them (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Lehman Bros. etc.). Health Insurance companies are driving the American people into bankruptcy, all to fatten their own Fat Cat pockets. And in things as important as banking (our money), real estate (our homes), and health care (our well being), this can't be allowed to continue.

In other words, the fear is currently misplaced.

Now in my opinion, the best system for things like health care, banking, and real estate (i.e. those things essential to our way of life) is one where the government has equal power to corporations and visa versa. No one usurps the other. However, that is unrealistic, and if I had to chose between a democratically elected government being in power, and a corporation, I'd personally chose government. Why?

Democratically elected governments like ours has to answer to us, the tax payer. If we don't like what they're doing, we vote them out and put new people in their place. Corporations only have to answer to their shareholders. They don't have to give a damn about the damage they cause us, so long as their shareholders are satisfied with their profits, and the way the system is currently set up, the worst that will happen to them is they just flee before the floor collapses under their feet and leave us to clean up the mess. Government is designed to work for us; Corporations are designed to work for themselves.
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