Tough day in N.O.

Post by **drumlord** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:05 pm

My wife donated to the Red Cross a few days ago. They actually send you an email to tell you where your money is going. That's what she told me anyway. I've been waiting to donate until my company set up a matching program which they finally finished setting up today. They're a 8000 employee organization and they chose the Red Cross if that means anything beyond what Kiz said.

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:13 am

"I fought the law, and the law won." Said some poet.

Well the tragedy in New Orleans continues apparently, except now, a storm is not the pepetrator, it's both state and federal government deciding to suspend Constitutional rights down there.

Forced Police evacuations.
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player. ... ations.cnn

Door to door searches, + attack on an old woman. (8th video down)
http://www.ktvu.com/news/4936363/detail.html

Violation of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Amendments.
http://media.putfile.com/NewOrleansGunConfiscationSmall

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:33 am

Looks like the Red Cross is the way to go. I've been researching various other organizations.

And it looks like FEMA, headed as it is by horse boy, was blocking necessary aid by the rest of 'em. Hopefully that'll be fixed, now.

Post by **GhaleonOne** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:49 am

A few things...

DBD, I didn't look at the links, but isn't it because they're worried about the citizen's getting disease. If they're attacking old ladies, that's not cool, but they do have to worry about the horrible disease that could come of this.

Second, I agree with Kiz on the Red Cross thing. It was blown out of proportion on the 9/11 stuff. The Salvation Army seems to be a decent charity to give for this too, but I'm only basing it off of what a few others said, and nothing I researched myself.

Third, on that Kanye West comment from last week... did anyone watch that concert? I didn't watch it, but my dad called and said Chris Rock or Tucker was there (he said he didn't know which, I'm guessing Tucker since he was in the studios with Kanye and Mike Meyers at the time). Apparently he got in front of everyone and went "George W. Bush hates midgets". Pretty funny stuff. On top of that, Cheney got a surprise comment said to him during live nationally broadcasted TV on CNN this morning from a local:

http://media.putfile.com/Cheney_090805

Post by **Kizyr** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:59 am

DeathBeforeDenial wrote:"I fought the law, and the law won." Said some poet.

Well the tragedy in New Orleans continues apparently, except now, a storm is not the pepetrator, it's both state and federal government deciding to suspend Constitutional rights down there.

I'm the least likely to mention this here, but it's somewhat understandable considering it's a state of martial law in New Orleans right now. It's not good, but it's nothing new. KF

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:02 am

GhaleonOne wrote:DBD, I didn't look at the links, but isn't it because they're worried about the citizen's getting disease. If they're attacking old ladies, that's not cool, but they do have to worry about the horrible disease that could come of this.

I understand the intent, however legally there are no grounds to forcibly remove people from their homes, confiscate their weapons and relocate them without consent. (A violation of the 2nd 3rd and 4th Amendments) If they choose to stay, then they should go on their merry way, and not be allowed to act as some police force.

If you do get a chance, look at some of the neighborhoods they are doing it in too (In the videos), it's not the diseased swamp pits that a lot of people make it out to be right now.

Kiz: Martial Law cannot be declared in Loisiana because their constitution does not allow it. (Federal Martial Law would need to be put into effect for that to work)

Also check out the Posse Comitatus Act.

Post by **Kizyr** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:08 am

DeathBeforeDenial wrote:Kiz: Martial Law cannot be declared in Loisiana because their constitution does not allow it. (Federal Martial Law would need to be put into effect for that to work)

Also check out the Posse Comitatus Act.

...Zounds! You're right. I'd defer to you on that. KF

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:28 am

...Oops. Somebody did something illegal.

I wonder when the press'll catch it.

Post by **Kizyr** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:38 am

Angelalex242 wrote:...Oops. Somebody did something illegal.

I wonder when the press'll catch it.

...I don't think you quite get what that means. Plus that, much of the press has no more than a layman's knowledge of law. KF

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:56 am

Oh, I get what it means. My first comment was supposed to be in the 'somebody's gonna get in trouble' sort of voice little kids have. Amazing what doesn't come through in text. Not exactly a smiley for that...

And the press doesn't directly, but, for example, Fox news has judge Napolatono and Greta Van Sustren looking into things from a legal angle all the time.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:34 am

Actually, I was under the impression that Lousiana Law clearly stated that in case of emergancy, the govenor and the mayor both have the legal right to FORCE people out of their homes. Also, several law makers and law professiors have said that nothing is being done illegal. All the people have to do is take it to court for the right to stay (but since there isn't any court around....)

They also agree that there is no Martial Law, but the Govenor does have full rights to command the National Guard and order forced evaucations.

However, reading on how Lousiana's own government wouldn't let the red cross in made me sick, after they made a huge -Borgan- about how no one came to their aid. Also, the plan to give all families $2,000 debit cards was cancled, as was the hearing into the hurrican responce. Figures.

Regardless, I don't see it getting any worse, only better. Most of the people are now out of the city, the flood waters are receeding, and one levee was repaired and another is being worked on. The only think I see as getting worse is the water pollution of the Mississippi river and Lake Pont. Oh, and the Gulf Coast too.

Edit: The old lady reminded me of a guy who lives in a multimillion dollar house who refuses to leave. He flat out told reporters that he'll shoot anyone who tries to make him leave. He had plenty of proof of that, he was armed pretty freaking well (looked nearly like a 60 year old commando from a Vietnam movie.) Part of his speech included "What makes them think that I'm going to get dieseases and the soldiers who are here to force me out arn't?" I don't think he thought about the fact that soldiers get more vaccines and crap injected into them than a sick old lady.

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:13 pm

phyco126 wrote:They also agree that there is no Martial Law, but the Govenor does have full rights to command the National Guard and order forced evaucations.

The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 is a general prohibition on the power of Federal Military authorities (Like the National Guard) to act as law enforcement (Which they are doing). It bars them from participating in Search, seizure, and arrest. And the Governor doesn't have the right to order that kind of power since he cannot declare Martial Law.

phyco126 wrote:I don't think he thought about the fact that soldiers get more vaccines and crap injected into them than a sick old lady.

While that's true, it shouldn't be up to the government to decide for me what is safe to do. If I can prove the house is my property, and I say I don't want to leave, then they have no right (Under currently existing Louisiana Law) to evacuate and telocate me by force.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:26 pm

Well, defending such civil liberties is the ACLU's job, by and large. If they're not taking up the case, I don't see who else will.

...On the other hand, the ACLU became more partisan then it should be, which comprimises its effectiveness. If it stuck to its original guns, it'd get a lot more done.

Post by **Kizyr** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:09 pm

DeathBeforeDenial wrote:The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 is a general prohibition on the power of Federal Military authorities (Like the National Guard) to act as law enforcement (Which they are doing). It bars them from participating in Search, seizure, and arrest. And the Governor doesn't have the right to order that kind of power since he cannot declare Martial Law.

Lemme get the straight. We're talking Title 18, Sec. 1386 of the US Code:

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, the only case in which this would be legal is if it were authorized by Congress. Why is it that LA state law would supersede Federal law in this case? Or, am I on the wrong track entirely? KF

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:40 pm

Kizyr wrote:Lemme get the straight. We're talking Title 18, Sec. 1386 of the US Code:

1385, actually. But yes.

Kizyr wrote:So, the only case in which this would be legal is if it were authorized by Congress. Why is it that LA state law would supersede Federal law in this case? Or, am I on the wrong track entirely? KF

I actually have to check around some more and see if Congress did suspend Posse Comitatus or not. My initial searches didn't show that they had, and that they were sending troops under the guise of a "State of Emergency".

However it doesn't change the fact that constitutional violations are occurings in LA right now, and somebody is going to come out of this with quite a monkey on his back.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:11 pm

Ah, but they did mention that the govenor can't use federal troops, but the national gaurd isn't called "federal troops." I didn't make that rule, that's what all the interviews with lawmakers and stuff said.

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:02 pm

Of course they're not called federal troops, which is Ironic because they can be deployed by the federal government in any place they see fit.

If they were just there to provide aide I would support their efforst 110%, but this forced relocation, and illegal search&seizure is just too much.

PrettyGirlJean · Post by **PrettyGirlJean** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:12 am

GhaleonOne wrote: On top of that, Cheney got a surprise comment said to him during live nationally broadcasted TV on CNN this morning from a local:

http://media.putfile.com/Cheney_090805

This was on the Daily Show (this past thursday I believe) and just after Cheney said "No, this is the first time..." after the reporter asked him if he got that a lot, Jon Stewart cut in and said "That's because it's your first time there!" I can't convey the hilarity in text, but suffice it to say Jon Stewart has a way with words. The Daily Show has been doing some covering of Katrina, that's how I also heard about Ted Koppel telling off the ... was it the President of FEMA? It didn't show the whole clip, but apparently the guy in charge said that they didn't "officially" know what was going on until 3-4 days after the storm hit. Jon Stewart then came on to comment: "Well what was it a myth? Some legend..." Again, I can't accurately convey the humor.

It's also nice to see that the media isn't backing down in a good way. I don't normally care for the way the news is presented but they really seem to be staying in the face of the government over New Orleans, its a nice change.

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:07 am

I expected the media to hop on the anti-government bandwagon. Granted I have no love for any level of the government in how they handled the situation, however the media is just using the anger of the population at large to cash in on the excitement and drama of it all.

Nothing new I'm afraid, playing the same game, just for the other team if you will.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:14 pm

Ya know...if the government had responded efficiently and saved lives efficiently, would anyone care about the detrails of how?

Many people have been martyred for the cause of freedom. But it should be choice they make, rather then one forced upon those who want help by the government itself.

Lunar Threads

Tough day in N.O.

Who is online