Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

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Alunissage
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Alunissage »

Certainly the largest and most conspicuous religions which are grouped under the umbrella term of Christianity consider Jesus to be part of a three-in-one God. But that isn't everyone; it might be more accurate to call that the "mainstream" view. Defining a term like "Christianity" in relation to adherence to the determinations of a council of men centuries after the Bible was completed doesn't sit right with me, even though I know the majority -- the mainstream -- will feel otherwise. But probably best to continue exploring this in PM rather than on the boards.

(Although I wonder... I've heard the term "Mohammedanism" used to refer to Islam, although I've no idea if it's a current or older/deprecated term and if it's considered an exact synonym. Are there similar splits between the followers of a prophet who identify themselves by that prophet's name, but differ on one or more very fundamental points? Would be interested to find out, and also open to being corrected on terminology in this regard since I am entirely an outsider and ignorant of nuance here.)

Speaking of terminology, I was probably misusing the term "allegory" -- it's one that I've always had a hard time with, to be honest. I can certainly believe that the Christian parallels pushed their way in to the story as it grew rather than being there from the outset. However, he had to have been conscious that they were there (unlike, say, J. K. Rowling and the last HP book; I'm pretty sure she said she hadn't deliberately put Christian overtones in it and I believe her; I didn't see it that way myself).

To be honest, this reminds me a bit of the discussions on whether Lunar = the moon and the Blue Star = Earth. While it's obvious enough from the name and the placement of the two in the opening of EB that Earth and the moon were the basis for the setting, I seem to recall that Shigema pointedly stopped short of saying that they are the same. Actually, it took me at least one or two playthroughs of TSS to make the Lunar/moon connection, that's how not-really-there it is in the first game. (Or how obtuse I am, but I'm inclined to give myself the benefit of the doubt here. Good of me, I know.)

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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Imperial Knight »

Alunissage wrote:
Although I wonder... I've heard the term "Mohammedanism" used to refer to Islam, although I've no idea if it's a current or older/deprecated term and if it's considered an exact synonym.
For what it's worth, the one case I can recall of the term being used is in a geography book from 1881. In the context the book is using the term, it is clearly referring to Islam. Based on that, I had figured that it was probably an archaic term, but truth be told I don't know for sure.

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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Alunissage »

Yeah, part of my confusion is that I don't remember where I read it. It may very well have been in one of the Andrew Lang "Fairy Books" that were published in, I think, the early 1900s and were collections of fairy tales that of course dated from before then. Not to mention being largely, though not entirely, seen through European eyes. (On the other hand, there's at least one part of Okami that I could understand much better having read in one of Lang's books the legend on which it was based.) So it could be not only a much older use but an outsider, Eurocentric one.

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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Sonic# »

I've read the term Mohammedism used early on; the dictionary says 1600, but I'd be willing to venture even earlier. It always struck me as an offensive term, and looking it up just now, the stated reason is that it sets the focus of Islam on a human being instead of Allah.

So the term would be the way Western culture has referred to a religion it didn't fully understand.
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Kizyr »

Alunissage wrote:(Although I wonder... I've heard the term "Mohammedanism" used to refer to Islam, although I've no idea if it's a current or older/deprecated term and if it's considered an exact synonym. Are there similar splits between the followers of a prophet who identify themselves by that prophet's name, but differ on one or more very fundamental points? Would be interested to find out, and also open to being corrected on terminology in this regard since I am entirely an outsider and ignorant of nuance here.)
"Mohammedanism" is an archaic term that Europeans used to use for Islam when they had no idea what they were talking about. If I hear it now, I might be mildly offended, but more so I'd be questioning if the person who said it is some throwback from the 19th century. It's like using the word "Negro" instead of black. It's not offensive as much as it just makes you sound like a moron.

Sonic# is accurate in his description of why people may find it offensive. It basically stems from shortsightedness that assumes that any other religion has the same beliefs, but it only replaces certain words. Me, I find it about as stupid as assuming that other languages are the same thing written in a different alphabet.
Alunissage wrote:Speaking of terminology, I was probably misusing the term "allegory" -- it's one that I've always had a hard time with, to be honest. I can certainly believe that the Christian parallels pushed their way in to the story as it grew rather than being there from the outset. However, he had to have been conscious that they were there (unlike, say, J. K. Rowling and the last HP book; I'm pretty sure she said she hadn't deliberately put Christian overtones in it and I believe her; I didn't see it that way myself).
C.S. Lewis, though, was very overtly religious and didn't mind having religious influence go into his books. I really think certain parallels were intentional on his part, but they weren't direct one-to-one substitutions. But it's mostly because Lewis wasn't a simplistic writer and wanted Narnia to be its own world, not just ours restated in different words. KF
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by GhaleonOne »

Kizyr wrote:C.S. Lewis, though, was very overtly religious and didn't mind having religious influence go into his books. I really think certain parallels were intentional on his part, but they weren't direct one-to-one substitutions. But it's mostly because Lewis wasn't a simplistic writer and wanted Narnia to be its own world, not just ours restated in different words. KF
I think this makes the most sense. I'm sure there was at least some intention with parallels, especially in regards to the last book of the Narnia series.

In fact, regarding the the new movie, there's some people claiming that they added even more Christian elements to it than were originally in the book (in the sense that they stressed the need for Aslan to come bounding in saving them in the end, though that was still always in the book, just earlier on).
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Werefrog »

I turned on my TV one day, and the 700 Club was just going off. They had a segment about a Bible study using the Chronicles of Narnia. This was really funny to me since I just had a conversation with friends about why the books were in a Christian bookstore.

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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by phyco126 »

Dad remembers when it came out. He said the Church hated the books and called poor old Lewis a Heretic. My how the times change, eh? Whether or not this was a mass reaction at the time, I couldn't say, I wasn't alive for many more years. ;)

Makes sense though, my Aunt believes that all the Christian Music today is satanic and tricking young kids into the occult by throwing Jesus this way and that. It's funny to get her going.
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by LunarRaptor »

Wow, would my cousin have a bone to pick with her, being the head singer of a Christian rock band.
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Old Jericho »

Yeah, those anti-rock folks like av1611.org kind of make me sad. They kind of miss the point.
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by lnrSaxon »

I hated what they did to Peter's character. -____-;; He's supposed to be wise and gracious because he lived an adult life as a king...... not someone who's pining for the attention he'd get as a king. And the entire first battle scene where they raid the castle doesn't happen cuz Peter doesn't think it's a good idea. O.o What I liked about the book is that Peter doesn't fight with Caspian for control, but rather, he sets out to put Caspian on the throne.

The witch calling was extended, but I liked that Edmund was the one that put a stop to it.

and what the heck with the romance bit?? Caspian's supposed to be a kid, yeah?

Overall, I do like it a lot, but I wish they were more consistent. Still, for Andrew Adamson to produce this result is pretty amazing.

yay, Narnia. :)

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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by LunarRaptor »

On the bright side, Caspian isn't doing nearly as well as the first one, so this will be a lesson to just stick with what Lewes wrote next time around.
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by Sonic# »

Well, they didn't exactly stick with just what Lewis wrote the first time either. (The whole first part of the movie, for instance... though perhaps there were less liberties taken.) I don't think having less revenue will make them less likely to deviate from the book, it'll just make them less likely to generously fund a sequel.

Which is sad, because I like Voyage of the Dawn Treader, having recently read it, though I'd be apprehensive about a movie, since I imagine it as an episodic affair.
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Re: Prince Caspian... (minor spoilers)

Post by LunarRaptor »

The next film has already been financed and is in production.
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