Avatar

[GhaleonOne]

Uh, wow? Really, it might be one of my favorite movies in a long time. 3D and special effects and all that aside, I really digged the story a great deal. Anyone else see it yet?

[Silver Phoenix]

I was on the fence about seeing this movie, but I hear it is quite good as well and plan to see it with some friends either this week or early next. As the movie was designed around 3D implementation it's really the only way you should see the movie. I'd like to see it in IMAX but there is no theater around here.

[CatsWithMatches]

I thought it was incredible. Sure it borrows alot from other stories, but they tied it all together really well.

[Aaron]

Man, I saw Avatar and I think it is very very mediocre.

The only thing it has going for it is the 3d and special effects. Don't get me wrong, while I was watching the movie my eyes were in some sort of visual orgy. But that story was very run of the mill. And the script was even worse...let me point out some of the key phrases from the trailer.


"We're not in Kansas anymore."

"Then we'll just have to stop him."

"That this...this is our land!"

LOL. I mean really. What makes it even worse is the whole analogy to the USA raping other countries for resources. And the designs for some of the vehicles that the humans used were God awful: 3 of them were blatantly stolen designs from the movie ALIENS and then modified. And the inter-galactic ship that takes SPOILER them looks like a space shuttle END SPOILER.

So in short, it is Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within except it's 3 hours long. I would not have been able to sit through that if it were not 3d. James Cameron is lucky he put it in 3d and that he got such extensive advertising for this film. I have noticed that whenever some famous or even psudo-famous directors get to make their pet projects they're usually horrible.

One good thing though: I really, really hope this opens the door for 3d as a standard format.


Oh and Spoiler time:

The sex scene was hilarious. Right around that time in the movie, I had just started getting comfortable with the idea that the Na'vi were equal to humans, and then James C. had to put that in there. I totally giggled. I think it really stripped something from the movie, especially since the second she saved him I knew that they were going to fall in love.

[ilovemyguitar]

One good thing though: I really, really hope this opens the door for 3d as a standard format.

Are you totally sure you want that?

[Aaron]

Oh yeah, 3d was awesome. I took me a few minutes to get used to it but I totally see it as the future of gaming/television.

It's completely applicable to everything. Besides, don't you want a Holodeck a-la Star Trek one day?

[Kizyr]

The idea of one group that's more powerful militarily taking resources from another group that's much less powerful (particularly if they're indigenous to the region) is something that's been repeated many times throughout history, not just with the United States. James Cameron in an NPR interview on Saturday (forget the name; may have been a Fresh Air repeat) actually said that he wanted to take elements from many different indigenous cultures--with a focus on Polynesian ones, particularly for the language--since it was a universal theme and not aimed at any one particular country. (If it were twenty years ago, people would probably think it was directed more at the Soviet Union. A century ago, the British. And so on.)

It's a great theme to build a story around. The only down-side is that it's, well, a very predictable one, since it always ends up the same way. The only interesting things to see are cultural, such as how the stronger group justifies their expansion, how the indigenous group maintains themselves, etc. KF

[Aaron]

I guess I just watch more of James Cameron's movies then you guys.

Aliens & The Abyss.

Aliens had the same military theme as this movie. Advanced civilization goes in under company orders to eradicate indigenous/alien natives. People at that time compared it to Vietnam and how the technologically superior USA lost to the technologically inferior Viet-Cong/Chinese. It was a big F-U to corporate America too because it implies that corporations are manipulating politics.

Avatar does this too, but more emphasis on the Military being evil. The corporate evil is just left for granted.

The Abyss was Cameron's first really preachy environmental/humans will kill themselves message. In it the Aliens that have been just "chillin'" (Sorry I hate that word but I'm using it anyway) at the bottom of the ocean. Choose the funky white man to preach their message of peace and saving the earth. This one had a lot more to do with the Na'vi beliefs (if one were to compare this to Avatar).


James Cameron kinda has a history of infusing his movies with his political beliefs. It doesn't make them right, it just makes them heard. Even in your response you assume that the USA has already "raped and pillaged" other countries natural resources. And I think it is merely fair to point out that his movies do have messages and aren't just something to enjoy. Think about how close the release date of Avatar was to major environmental conferences. I don't think it was a coincidence.


EDIT****

I'm wondering, while watching this movie did any of you get the impression that James Cameron had made Avatar a R film. And then the studios said "hell no" and made him censor/edit a lot of stuff from the theatrical release? I bet there is about 40-50 minutes of the movie that was cut. Also I think there was a lot more violence envisioned. Especially because of that scene SPOILERwhere the evil military guy is talking about how hardcore Pandora is. Then as you watch the film, it's more like a fairy world? I didn't get that. I was expecting blood guts, and people being ripped to pieces like Aliens...End Spoiler.....

[Shin Otaku III]

Man, I saw Avatar and I think it is very very mediocre.

There's nothing wrong with having someone that see things a different way, But jesus christ man, you are so predictable it's sad.

[Werefrog]

It seems like I'm always in the minority here when it comes to movies. I thought it was an okay movie, but I would have probably liked it better if it were 40 or so minutes shorter.

I saw it in 3D, and I have to say that the 3D seemed really gimmicky. And it gave me a pretty bad headache.

[GhaleonOne]

Actually, the 3D gave me a slight headache at first too. It faded fairly quickly, and I just assumed it was because I was stuck nearly at the front of the theatre on the side.

[Aaron]

There's nothing wrong with having someone that see things a different way, But jesus christ man, you are so predictable it's sad.

Hey, I'm not the only one. Check out this New York Times article about Avatar

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/opini ... ml?_r=2&em

[Kizyr]

I guess I just watch more of James Cameron's movies then you guys.

No, I think it's that the message of his movies rubs you the wrong way, so it's more noticeable in your case. Most good movies have some sort of message; it's not surprising that the same director will tend to have similar messages throughout his movies.

In fact, one of my favorite things about sci-fi as a genre is that it lets us explore a lot of issues in a totally different setting. Cameron is really good at this:

Aliens & The Abyss.

I agree, and both of those were great. I remember more of Aliens than The Abyss; I only saw the latter one once.

Aliens in particular implied that corporations manipulating politics is evil. Whether or not someone saw this as the case in Vietnam depended on whether or not they believed that corporations were manipulating that conflict in the first place.

James Cameron kinda has a history of infusing his movies with his political beliefs. It doesn't make them right, it just makes them heard. Even in your response you assume that the USA has already "raped and pillaged" other countries natural resources. And I think it is merely fair to point out that his movies do have messages and aren't just something to enjoy.

I'm assuming that the USA has already "raped and pillaged" other countries/people's natural resources, because we have done that. That's core to the history of settlement, Westward Expansion, and several times during the Cold War. Plus, it's common to a lot of other country's histories as well. The difference with the US is that, unlike most countries, we have a current trend of admitting the unpleasant elements of our past instead of blindly glossing over it (the only other places I've seen that do this to a similar extent are the UK and Australia).

Think about how close the release date of Avatar was to major environmental conferences. I don't think it was a coincidence.

Considering that he's been working on this for ten years, it's a coincidence. There's always some major conference around the corner; if it wasn't Copenhagen, it would've been something else. KF

[Aaron]

For the record one of my all time favorite movies is Aliens.

The reason I brought up the Aliens Vietnam reference is because I watched the special features and they comment on it extensively. People today don't view it that way though, but you can certainly see how someone could see themes of Vietnam.

I don't know if this is the proper thread to discuss America vs. The World but, I would love to talk about it. I would like to see what you consider to be raping and pillaging. I would also like to see examples.


Also about Avatar being worked on for ten years, it's not true. He conceived the idea and then waited for a long time so that technology could catch up to his vision. And, if you think about it. Releasing a movie that doesn't have a Christmas theme during the middle of December is a horrible idea. Why not wait until the end of the year? Or why not release it during Summer of 09? That would have made more sense. December releases usually never do well. But I have no idea why someone would choose Dec. 18th as an international release. The Copenhagen thing is speculation on my part, but I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.

[Kizyr]

The reason I brought up the Aliens Vietnam reference is because I watched the special features and they comment on it extensively. People today don't view it that way though, but you can certainly see how someone could see themes of Vietnam.

Oh there're definite Vietnam references there. I'm not denying that. But criticism of Corporatism is a major theme in a lot of science fiction, not just James Cameron's.

I don't know if this is the proper thread to discuss America vs. The World but, I would love to talk about it. I would like to see what you consider to be raping and pillaging. I would also like to see examples.

Right; it's not the proper thread. Although I did give you three examples off-hand above. If you start a thread on it, though, I can't guarantee I'll participate; I get the feeling it'll be a lot of explanation of basic historical facts at the beginning, much like how that Recession 2.0 thread a while backturned into me trying to explain a bunch of basic economic principles. It ended up being, well, rather tiring, and I didn't have much time to continue it after the first few posts.

Also about Avatar being worked on for ten years, it's not true. He conceived the idea and then waited for a long time so that technology could catch up to his vision.

True. I concede that point. But...

And, if you think about it. Releasing a movie that doesn't have a Christmas theme during the middle of December is a horrible idea. Why not wait until the end of the year? Or why not release it during Summer of 09? That would have made more sense. December releases usually never do well.

There are two key times for movie releases: during the summer, and during the winter holiday season (that 2-4 week break when schools are out and/or work is light). If you remember, Lord of the Rings released each of the trilogy in December around this same time. So, if you can't release a movie in the summer, your next-best option is December around Christmas.

And if it were during the summer, you could have just as easily claimed Cameron was timing it with the G8 Summit. It's in the realm of possibility, but it's far more likely it's just coincidence. Particularly since the next-best option for a movie release is December. KF

[CatsWithMatches]

I have no idea why someone would choose Dec. 18th as an international release.

It was my birthday, after all...

[Aaron]

Oh! It makes so much more sense now. Happy belated Birthday!

Does it suck having your birthday so close to Christmas? (Most people I know say yes.)

[CatsWithMatches]

Thanks.

It doesn't really suck that much. I always got twice as much stuff.

[Monde Luna]

Okay I'm bringing back the dead... I'm seriously surprised more people did not comment on this movie. Generally I am not fond of 3D movies but Avatar was done w/ taste. Unlike some of the disney 3D shows. (I'm not a Disney hater btw I <3 me some Disney) The 3D graphics really did enhance the movie especially with the foliage. Good stuff! <3'ed the movie, I don't care if it was predictable. Sometimes a nice predictable movie is just what the doctor ordered.

[phyco126]

The 3D graphics really did enhance the movie especially with the foliage. Good stuff! <3'ed the movie, I don't care if it was predictable. Sometimes a nice predictable movie is just what the doctor ordered.

Indeed! I saw the movie twice, once in normal format and then again on IMAX 3D. I love it! I want to see it one last time on the IMAX, but this time I want to get there super early so I can get a spot high in the theater so I don't strain my neck (plus, the 3D effects where slightly lessened due to the fact I was sitting front row and my eyes had trouble focusing at that close range).