Question/Request

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

I have a question for those of you with drawing (PC or handdrawn) skill.

Would you find it morally inappropriate to draw Christian figures (like Jesus) with Lunar religious figures?

I envision a drawing of Jesus holding Althena's hand (in a friendly way, not a love way).

opinions?

[ilovemyguitar]

I'm all for freedom of speech, ESPECIALLY in the creation of art. If it's the statement you want to make, go ahead and make it.

However, such a work of art probably would be considered controvertial, and you'll have to be prepared for that.

[Werefrog]

Not every Peanuts fan is Christian. But they still all loved the Christmas special. I mean who wouldn't love the special? (I wasn't allowed to watch it as a child because my dad said it depressed him too much)

On topic: I wouldn't be offended by it. But I don't think them holding hands is very powerful imagery. I also don't quite know what you're trying to say with it. I'm assuming you are making a comparison with it. If so, I think a mural with Christ on the cross on one part and Althena becoming human and the other side would be so much more powerful. Now that, that would be controversial.

[GhaleonOne]

In case anyone is wondering, a few posts were deleted due to a misunderstanding. Just an FYI.

For my own opinion, I'm not really sure it would be controversial, but it certainly wouldn't appeal that much to me, even as a Christian. If art were done in that nature, I think Werefrog's suggestion would be more ideal.

[Alunissage]

I'd just class it with every other stupid and/or annoying fan idea I've seen. I thought the pseudo-Christian overtones added to the remakes (or even starting with EB) were idiotic and immersion-breaking and this would just be more so. The games' story is a fantasy which has little connection with the "real world" beyond very rudimentary geography, and combining religious icons of the two would make about as much sense and be about as appealing as plastering the Goddess Tower with American flags and putting Statues of Liberty in place of Statues fo Althena.

[Fortifying Conditioner]

Just out of curiosity, what Christian overtones were added? I don't think I noticed them and am, actually, just starting a new game of Lunar Eternal Blue Complete. I'd like to try and spot them this time around. I'm probably missing them because they're really obvious.

As to the topic of this thread, I wouldn't be terribly offended and I'm, technically, a Christian. Although I can see some others having problems with such imagery, many of those same people won't let their kids read Harry Potter because it's, y'know, evil and crap.

I don't think I'd classify it as a stupid suggestion either. Many of the people who would draw such a picture would be doing it as a way to meld two different aspects of their lives, which they enjoy. Hell, If it were edible (and I had more than one copy) I'd pour chocolatle over my copy of Lunar and eat the bastard. I mean it only stands to reason that games this good would taste good too.

[GhaleonOne]

It was the feel of the religion in the games that she's referring to. The hierachy and structure that began to exist in EB, and was thus added into SSSC where it wasn't in TSS. Personally, I disagree with Alunissage's attitude towards the religion in EB. It was a good contrast from TSS, and showed the progression (or regression depending on your view) of the culture, even if the religious system was found to be a farce. A lot of things happen in 1000 years. Culture and religion change. The time between Lunar 1 and 2 fit perfectly with that. My main problem is that they tried to push it onto SSSC, completely destroying the uniqueness of the culture and religion over 1000 years. The contrast was a good thing, but SSSC was turned into EB in a lot of those ways, instead of leaving it with it's own feel.

[Fortifying Conditioner]

I gotcha. In that case, however, I don't think it'd be fair to blame solely Christianity. There are older religions around that are just as structured and that bear a resemblance to that of the Lunar games.

In all honesty I never noticed religion being pushed into SSSC so I was less bothered, but then, I'm not a very religious person (hence why I said I was only technically a Chrisitian).

[Alunissage]

That's a good point; I played EB just after SSSC, so I didn't see the contrast as being between TSS and EB but between TSS and SSSC, with EB just exacerbating it. So I can see where you're coming from with EB's different feel serving a purpose; it did succeed in giving the evil religion feel. The worship as presented in TSS would not have been so easily corrupted and one could imagine that whatever changes occurred naturally over 1000 years of not actually having Althena around might result in a religion more amenable to Zophar's influence. Of course, I also just disliked the air of spiritual malaise in EB in general, quite possibly a major reason why I like Lunar 2 less than Lunar 1.

The changes in SSSC... the cathedral-like Temple of Althena, with its stained-glass rather than the Greco-Roman feel of the Goddess Tower in TSS (or the Assyrianlike statues in EB's intro), the pipe-organ music and pipe organs themselves in the temple, the song lyric about an angel watching over one and the Angel Rings (granted, there were Dragon Angels in TSS, but they were sufficiently different from "human" angels to not have that personal-guardian feel), even Alex saying something like "My God" in one cutscene all served to break immersion to me. The cathedral and its music were the two main ones, to me; the little shrines and the dragon treasure rooms in TSS had these cool blue tones and remote, enigmatic music that served to provide the atmosphere of otherwordliness and establish Althena and the Dragons as unique to Lunar, while borrowing the trappings of Christianity made things too familiar to be immersive from a fantasy standpoint. If they absolutely felt compelled to copy some real-world religion I wish they'd been a bit more original and borrowed from something different, as indeed they did with the Goddess Tower and Lucia's Tower.

[Fortifying Conditioner]

Y'know, I never noticed any of that (besides the organ music), or maybe I just didn't make the connection. I'll have to agree with you in that case though. I generally prefer to keep my gaming as free of real world influence as possible.

I'm not really that surprised that there're Christian influences though, considering this is a japanese game. From what I can tell they just love to add the trappings of Christianity to their stories, Xenogears is just riddled with them. Another example would be the anime Evangelion.

As it is, I'm gonna pay a little more attention to the game this time through.

[GhaleonOne]

I think music played a very big part in the loss of that feel from TSS to SSSC. TSS's music added a huge amount of depth to the feel of it.

BTW, did anyone else really miss going into that Althena's Shrine near the White Dragon Cave in TSS that was gone in SSSC? It gave it a feel of a remote outpost that was made for the weary travelers.

[Kizyr]

I think music played a very big part in the loss of that feel from TSS to SSSC. TSS's music added a huge amount of depth to the feel of it.

BTW, did anyone else really miss going into that Althena's Shrine near the White Dragon Cave in TSS that was gone in SSSC? It gave it a feel of a remote outpost that was made for the weary travelers.

What I missed was how you could find some shrines literally in the middle of nowhere (like the crevices around the opposite end of the Volcano in the Marius Zone). KF

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

Not every Peanuts fan is Christian. But they still all loved the Christmas special. I mean who wouldn't love the special? (I wasn't allowed to watch it as a child because my dad said it depressed him too much)

On topic: I wouldn't be offended by it. But I don't think them holding hands is very powerful imagery. I also don't quite know what you're trying to say with it. I'm assuming you are making a comparison with it. If so, I think a mural with Christ on the cross on one part and Althena becoming human and the other side would be so much more powerful. Now that, that would be controversial.

Nothing, really. I simply think it'd be amusing to see this made. I just find it interesting.

I like your idea, too.

[Alunissage]

BTW, did anyone else really miss going into that Althena's Shrine near the White Dragon Cave in TSS that was gone in SSSC? It gave it a feel of a remote outpost that was made for the weary travelers.

What I missed was how you could find some shrines literally in the middle of nowhere (like the crevices around the opposite end of the Volcano in the Marius Zone). KF

Yeah, that was fun. TSS in general felt so much more like a big place to explore. There was so much more land than towns, and having the shrines and the MP/HP-restoring rocks in out-of-the-way places helped reward you for exploring (or at least made it possible to get back in one piece). There weren't really any secrets in the game, unfortunately, but at least there was something to find. When I heard that it was being remade, the main thing I hoped for was for some treasure caves and such to be added to the map, along the lines of that one in EB near Takkar. It was kind of cool that Legend did do this by putting in that one secret/optional cave.

Actually, there was one secret, I suppose, connected with that shrine you just mentioned. I'm pretty sure that's the one that actually gives you money if you donate instead of taking it.