I need crits plz? :D

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LuciaOne
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I need crits plz? :D

Postby LuciaOne » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:43 am

Hello everybody! Hopefully all has been well over here at LNet. I miss you guys.

I haven't posted in a while (go figure).
I graduated college and stuff, and am now doing all freelance art-type stuff while living at home (I'm a winner!).

Anyhoo, this is a current piece I'm working on and I need some crits... so if you see something that looks kinda funny, please post it!!!! <3 thanks !! btw it is Wonder Woman. I still have a lot to do on it, like connecting her left leg with her short-underwear-thingies. And add more stars. woo.

Image
Last edited by LuciaOne on Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I found my old siggie! MUAH HAHAHAHAHA!!!
~~~
Sir Kizyr: ::high-pitched voice:: Ohh lookit me, I'm a cute li'l elf!
MiaAusa: Oh wait! NO I GET IT.
MiaAusa: It's him finally fessing up the the fact that HE IS a cut li'l elf. :d
MiaAusa: Hey, chance" NO I GET IT" to "NOW I GET IT"
MiaAusa: change**
MiaAusa: I'm mad with grammar today
MiaAusa: bad**

I'm mad with grammar too.
~~~
Sir Kizyr: Here's a lovely song about my favorite food
Sir Kizyr: Lima, lento, soy, and pinto ~ Navy, northern, and garbanzo! ~ Kidneys and frijoles negros
Sir Kizyr: I love beans, I love beans, woo woo woo! ~ How 'bout you? ~ High in fiber ~ Low in fat ~ Hey, I betcha didn't know that
Sir Kizyr: When I eat beans, I sit in my little cloud, I don't know why ~ maybe 'cause I'm cuttin' muffins ~~ Because....
Sir Kizyr: I love beans! Hey hey hey! ~ I love beans everyday! ~ Beans are an excellent source of protein ~ I love beans!
Sir Kizyr: Diggydoo!
~~~

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Nobiyuki77
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Re: I need crits plz? lol ty heartu :D

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:49 pm

Wow. That is a lovely painting. :D

I've only one thing I'd say about the shading. Mainly that in the backdrop the day looks rather light all around, yet her shading is very high contrast, lots of deep shadows implying a very specific light source. If I could see a touch of the sun from say, the right hand side of the painting somewhere I think it would work better with the contrast (though I'd try it on a seperate layer to be safe...). Either that or I'd lighten her contrast a bit.

Otherwise, very nice and striking. Me like. :)
-Nobi

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Alunissage
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Alunissage » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:43 pm

Wow, that takes me back. I was a little kid when the TV series was on and I adored it. I'll look more closely later and give you feedback. ^_^

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Maru
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Maru » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:26 am

You have improved immensely, Alayna!

The only serious issues I see are in the face, particularly the nose. I feel as though it's very disproportional in how small it is; it seems as though it should be wider, especially with the nostrils. It looks razor thin. I know that this can just be a style thing, but it doesn't fit with the rest of the face. I'm sure it can easily be fixed with deeper shadows, bringing the nose out more.

I really love the detail you put in her outfit! Very well done, dahl'n.

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Jenner
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Jenner » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:11 pm

Alayna, if you're still watching this I have some questions.

What made you divert from your Anime style? Were you told no companies would want it?

Is there a particular reason why you are drawing DC/Marvel characters in DC/Marvel style?

Is there a reason you picked Wonder Woman?

Where's the LENSFLARE? It needs moar lensflare.

Are you doing this manner of art in an attempt to be "marketable"?

To be honest, sweetie, this picture bothers me a lot. And it's not because it's bad or wrong per say on a "mass scale". But because it's bad and wrong to what I believe is going on in the art industry right now and what I believe has been going on since the beginning and for too long.

Meg linked to a few things in her own rant regarding this stuff so I'll let the links speak for themselves. I highly suggest that you read the comments as well, and I understand if you don't understand.

http://ratcreature.livejournal.com/1750 ... 1#comments

As observed in the comments I like how they're all "hay guise don't do this it's trashy!" and then they do it. GG.

And what would happen if Men were put in those same poses?

http://vito-excalibur.livejournal.com/114588.html

unf unf unf?

Ratcreature has some suggestions on where to learn to draw anatomy that doesn't come from an over-sexualized patriarchal misogynistic sexist market.

"If you're looking for basic help on human anatomy you are better off with some general drawing guides. Andrew Loomis anatomy books for example have been out of print for a while but are available for free online, for example here:
http://fineart.sk/index.php?cat=1

For getting emotion and facial expressions right I recommend Gary Faigin's The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression, which I review here"

See also:
http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/boobs+don't+work+that+way

Why did you become a fan of comic books Alayna? What got you into Wonderwoman and Superheroes. Was it truly trampy t&a?

Critique:
Women don't bend that way, Wonderwoman needs a sammich, it pisses me off that you're a girl and your churning out the same sexist derogatory knuckle-dragging porn-art that does nothing but objectify and degenerate/degrade the woman as nothing but a sex object to sell books.

I still love you Alayna, I pray you go far, but I'm so upset that you're a girl, and you do this to Wonderwoman the symbolism is... crippling.

GG male-dominated media, GG.
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The Infamous Jenner!
Maker of Lists.
RIP Coley...
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still adore you Kiz.

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LuciaOne
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby LuciaOne » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:27 pm

Nobiyuki- So true, more contrast is definitely what the doctor ordered... Thank you for the tip!
Maru- ty! Yeah, you're right, the nose is too thin... well fix, thank you!!

Okay, I'm going to assume that Jenner's post is just a joke, since you're the one with one anime chick seizing another anime chick's boob in her mouth. But just in case:

Actually, I'm doing this Wonder Woman piece as a commission because a very nice guy is paying me to do it. He sought me out at Wizard World Chicago because he liked my style a lot, because of my color atmosphere and not just do line art then color. And I have always liked comic books, X-Men being my favorite ever since I was a little kid. I just got back from Comic Con which was awesome.

No, I'm not trying to be marketable. I'd like to be marketable because I like painting. A lot. It's what I do and want to do for a living. Check out my portfolio if you are unconvinced. I enjoy art and painting a lot more, I feel it's my calling now that I have gone in this direction. I don't know what you mean by I'm just following the market. I'm an illustrator, at least that's what my degree says. I want to do fantasy art and video game art, and I'm doing what I love. I think you're just trying to push your own beliefs on me.

I got sick of anime. Everyone does anime, it's boring. It isn't 'me' anymore. Anime has its place, it can be fun and very creative. Unfortunately, most people who do anime have no understanding of anatomy. If you look at my portfolio, I have maybe 2 or three anime-type pieces (out of 30 or so?). One is of Cammy, because I LOVE DRAWING T&A. Curves are a lot more fun to draw than men (no offense guys). See?
Image
TA-DA! T&A in the same pic! Go me!!

I don't find it degrading, and if someone finds this kind of art offensive, then a video game forum is the last place they should be. I'm not drawing Wonder Woman this way to make men drool. In fact, I can tell you the commissioner said NOT to make her a sex object, because Wonder Woman's character is one of regal and pride. If you need more information on her character, I recommend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman . He was VERY clear that he didn't want a "bimbo" looking piece. She isn't posing with her boobs hanging out or touching herself, so I really have no idea how you are offended. Be offended by my Cammy piece.

And Wonder Woman in my piece is not anorexic looking- I am not the type to defend myself against any sort of critique because I am always encouraging and I LIKE critique as it is the only way to get better- but yours seem completely unfounded. She looks a lot more well-fed than any model for any billboard, magazine or commercial- I didn't draw any ribs popping out of her. I actually took a reference photo of myself to get the anatomy right, referenced a lot of sources for muscle structure, etc, so yes women can look like this! I did embellish her curve just a bit, but not an insane amount. Try the pose in the mirror, it is possible.

Thanks for your feedback, and thank you for the reference. But next time do some real research before attacking me and insinuating that I'm a sellout. Which I guess that I am, since I am a professional illustrator and I want to make a living off of my art instead of working at some lame job that has nothing to do with art while doing my own stuff in tiny bits of free time. I'd rather paint Wonder Woman and make someone really happy than that.
I found my old siggie! MUAH HAHAHAHAHA!!!

~~~

Sir Kizyr: ::high-pitched voice:: Ohh lookit me, I'm a cute li'l elf!

MiaAusa: Oh wait! NO I GET IT.

MiaAusa: It's him finally fessing up the the fact that HE IS a cut li'l elf. :d

MiaAusa: Hey, chance" NO I GET IT" to "NOW I GET IT"

MiaAusa: change**

MiaAusa: I'm mad with grammar today

MiaAusa: bad**



I'm mad with grammar too.

~~~

Sir Kizyr: Here's a lovely song about my favorite food

Sir Kizyr: Lima, lento, soy, and pinto ~ Navy, northern, and garbanzo! ~ Kidneys and frijoles negros

Sir Kizyr: I love beans, I love beans, woo woo woo! ~ How 'bout you? ~ High in fiber ~ Low in fat ~ Hey, I betcha didn't know that

Sir Kizyr: When I eat beans, I sit in my little cloud, I don't know why ~ maybe 'cause I'm cuttin' muffins ~~ Because....

Sir Kizyr: I love beans! Hey hey hey! ~ I love beans everyday! ~ Beans are an excellent source of protein ~ I love beans!

Sir Kizyr: Diggydoo!

~~~

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phyco126
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby phyco126 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:03 am

*careful steps around the hate and maddness*

Alayna, how much are your commessions?
Image

- "Sometimes life smiles when it kicks you down. The trick is to smile back."

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Nobiyuki77
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Nobiyuki77 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:10 am

Good points Lucia. You're very right though, most Western anime artists have no skill with anatomy whatsoever (I've got a ways to go myself, you're leagues above me). I've made progress though, especially since I shifted gears to writing more than drawing I've felt a lot more free to experiment.

I'd love you to take a look at my recent piece for my book and tell me what you think sometime. Mind if I PM you?
-Nobi

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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Alunissage » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:48 am

Regarding the picture… the first thing I noticed was that the rope seems rather angular in its loops. I can kind of see the ones in her right hand as being side-views of loops (as opposed to the loops being roughly parallel to the plane of the picture) but the other set doesn't work so well in that viewpoint. I think either the lighting on them needs to be adjusted to give more dimensionality, or the angles need to be softened into curves to show a consistent texture and drape with the rest of the rope. I'd advise the latter.

Her eyes don't seem to be quite consistent in the direction they're facing. She's actually slightly cross-eyed; her left eye is looking at the viewer but her right eye is looking in the direction she's facing. Also, due to the shading on her nose, I get the feeling it is also facing the viewer, unlike the rest of her face.

Her torso also seems to be twisted slightly from the rest of her body, turned to face the viewer more. I know you said you used a reference photo of yourself, so this surprises me a little. But draw an imaginary line from the center of her left kneecap up to her shoulder and see -- her left breast is actually to the right of that line. Her left shoulder also looks a bit low to me, for the same reason; its lighting may also be subtly off.

In that vein, the lighting on her right breast (the red part) seems too far to the side, toward the viewer. The lighting on the metal (which looks incredible, by the way) on that side seems correct, but the highlight on the red doesn't match it. The shadowing on the left breastplace, for lack of a better word, also seems off; it suggests a much sharper angle than that on her right. I think this also points up the oddly twisted torso. By contrast, her abdomen above the gold "belt" seems more shadowed by her left arm than it should be.

It's been decades, literally, since I've seen a portrayal of Wonder Woman, at least in any context in which I was paying attention. But my recollection from the TV show, at least, is that her bracelets were much shorter. In a practical sense, wouldn't it be totally restrictive and uncomfortable to have the top edge be right where a muscle bunches up, as seems to be the case with her right arm?

Oh, one more thing. Her left fist seems very tightly clenched around the rope, while her right hand seems a little more relaxed. I'd expect her left hand to be more relaxed, ready to toss the rope or feed it to her other hand, or whatever. In particular, I'd think her left thumb would be straighter. As it is, it looks like she's about to slug something and has simply forgotten that that hand has a rope in it.

Almost forgot. Her legs look lighter than her upper body, as if she's wearing slightly paler pantyhose or something. I think it's mainly the lower half of the thighs that look this way; perhaps the highlighting is too white instead of flesh-toned. Also, doesn't her rope glow a little or something? I forget.

Regarding the issues Jenner brings up… it probably won't surprise anyone that I am in agreement with her, although I wouldn't have brought it up at this point -- I do think you do an effective job of conveying her as a strong woman even if she's been stuck in that sexpot swimsuit by sadistic character designers. (At least as you've drawn it the top is clearly a rigid structure holding itself up somehow, rather than being molded to her antigravity breasts.) I do have to reply to this:
Alayna wrote:I don't find it degrading, and if someone finds this kind of art offensive, then a video game forum is the last place they should be.

I'm not up for a discussion right now on what constitutes "degrading" but I do have to say that just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean that it's OK or that your actions do not contribute to upholding a paradigm that does bother other people. Some homosexuals don't mind the word "gay" being used as a casual description of something annoying, but their acceptance doesn't make things easier for those who do find the usage offensive.

What I really wanted to mention, though, was that a liking of videogames has little to do with a dislike of objectification. The thread Jenner linked talked about this in the context of people liking superhero comics yet not liking how all the females were drawn to be provocative and sexy regardless of context while the males weren't. One doesn't have to like all aspects of something to be a fan of the whole; I'm not overly fond of the pop refs in EB but I still like the game. Also, I have the impression that Jenner started the series with TSS, as did I, and there's very little skin in that game; the bromides weren't until later. So I really think you're way offbase with that comment.

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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Kizyr » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:37 am

LuciaOne wrote:Hello everybody! Hopefully all has been well over here at LNet. I miss you guys.

Aw, we missed you too. I missed you, anyway.

First off, I do like your current style and how it keeps improving. I'm glad you got away from anime. It's been overdone by American artists and I'm finding that it often ends up limiting people's potential to mimicry of one particular style instead of finding their own.

LuciaOne wrote:Anyhoo, this is a current piece I'm working on and I need some crits... so if you see something that looks kinda funny, please post it!!!! <3 thanks !! btw it is Wonder Woman. I still have a lot to do on it, like connecting her left leg with her short-underwear-thingies. And add more stars. woo.

I'm no artist, so all I can do is say where stuff looks a bit out-of-place. From the top-down:

I agree with Alun about the eyes. It's tough to tell what, if anything, she's focusing on. So the gaze looks a little weird there. Also, the nose looks a little too flat, as is the left side of her face. Shoulders, forearms, that all looks ok. But, the shading looks too stark, too highly contrasted. That's the case all around, but it's most apparent on the arms/shoulders. I'm also no expert on this, but... the top part of her breasts seems too curved outwards. In particular, the curve at the bottom of the breastplate implies she has smaller breasts than the curve at the top (i.e., they're not consistent). Her legs/thighs... Given her outfit and pose, her left leg shouldn't be showing as much of the blue-and-white star pattern.

Other than that, I don't see any problems.

Now, I should say that overall it looks really good. (I started with the above since I know you're more interested in constructive criticism than just a pat on the back.) The posture, character/costume design, the background, all that's looking great. It also looks like you gave her your own eyes.

Well, that's that. KF
~Kizyr
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LuciaOne
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby LuciaOne » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:11 pm

Thanks for all the crits, everyone! Especially Alun and Kiz. I have an updated version here: http://www.alayna.net/wip6.jpg .
Nobiyuki, I'd love to help you with any crits you might need :D I hope you'll do the same for me! And my previous post was in no way a slight to you, you seem to have a very good grasp on anatomy versus 95% of the other anime artists out there. The people who I was more aiming at are the ones on DeviantArt who think they are gods by getting thousands of hits for doing Naruto/FF7 fanart..poorly. It's one thing to do an amazing piece of Cloud with a gorgeous background, versus a terribly rendered Cloud and Sephiroth or Naruto and Sasuke makeout fest. :D

Phyco- Prices depend. The big factor is if I get to keep the rights or not, meaning if I can sell prints of the piece afterwords or if the commissioner wants full rights. Like the Wonder Woman piece, I only charged $100 for (it's 11"x17") because the commissioner is letting me keep the rights, so I can sell prints for $15 at cons and on my site. If he wanted to keep the rights, it'd be like $300-500. Other than that, if it's just a simple piece to do one character with minimal background as more of a sketch, it'd be like $50. =]

Alun- Nowadays (I picked up a few new Wonder Woman comics as reference), her armbands/gauntlets are much much bigger than her TV show or earlier rendition. Here's an example, this is the GIANT banner they had hanging at the DC booth at Comic Con:
http://www.alayna.net/wonderwomanbanner.jpg
I did darken her legs and made numerous adjustments from your comments (but I didn't follow all of them, nothing against your comments but I've gotten a lot of conflicting advice so I just kinda did what I felt looked right :]).
I found my old siggie! MUAH HAHAHAHAHA!!!

~~~

Sir Kizyr: ::high-pitched voice:: Ohh lookit me, I'm a cute li'l elf!

MiaAusa: Oh wait! NO I GET IT.

MiaAusa: It's him finally fessing up the the fact that HE IS a cut li'l elf. :d

MiaAusa: Hey, chance" NO I GET IT" to "NOW I GET IT"

MiaAusa: change**

MiaAusa: I'm mad with grammar today

MiaAusa: bad**



I'm mad with grammar too.

~~~

Sir Kizyr: Here's a lovely song about my favorite food

Sir Kizyr: Lima, lento, soy, and pinto ~ Navy, northern, and garbanzo! ~ Kidneys and frijoles negros

Sir Kizyr: I love beans, I love beans, woo woo woo! ~ How 'bout you? ~ High in fiber ~ Low in fat ~ Hey, I betcha didn't know that

Sir Kizyr: When I eat beans, I sit in my little cloud, I don't know why ~ maybe 'cause I'm cuttin' muffins ~~ Because....

Sir Kizyr: I love beans! Hey hey hey! ~ I love beans everyday! ~ Beans are an excellent source of protein ~ I love beans!

Sir Kizyr: Diggydoo!

~~~

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GhaleonOne
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby GhaleonOne » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:35 pm

Since I'm not that good with constructive criticism, I'll just give the obligatory pat-on-the-back. Though seriously, your art is really good Alayna, and it's gotten better over the years, for sure! And you know, you're always welcome to submit Lunar fanart. :P *hint hint*
-G1

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Zophar
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Re: I need crits plz? :D

Postby Zophar » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:54 pm

Wow, that is some amazing artwork. Well done, very well done. Keep up the good work. :)


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