GhaleonOne wrote: ... (my biggest worry would be that Japanese developers don't find it funny and don't liscense games to the company) ...
Same here. Hopefully they won't be too bothered by it. Still, though, I wonder why he picked that name. Maybe he really doesn't know what it means (well, not the part about it being offensive, anyway). You would think that he'd look into something like that though.
For what it's worth, here are some other posts from Vic regarding the name in that same topic. Please note that I'm not writing this to endorse Vic's choice of name, but simply to show what his justifications are.
No spin necessary. It's not the word, it's how it's used. Someone made the connection that it was akin to "queer" when speaking about gay folk, then that community took the word back, turning the word inside out again. Pretty astute observation, actually. Gaijin is "outsider", that's all. And now, we're taking it back, baby.
In fact, on the Japanese side, the name is shocking enough that it's led to some pretty cool meetings. Which was/is the point.
Yeah, the shock value has been a door-opener of sorts in that it seems to have enabled more open and casual conversation, which is really tough on "introduction" meetings. Fortunately, I know a LOT of Japanese players, and most of the meetings have been with people I've known for 10-15 years or more.
Hey, if the name works and gets us good games, I could care less one way or another. But then, I don't know Japanese, so to know the extent of the word's shock value (even with Kiz' explanation) isn't possible really.
Side note: Anyone want to predict what game he might liscense first? Last we heard from him, Xbox 360 was in the picture, but that was around 9 months ago. Things change quickly, and with new systems coming out, should be interesting.
Heh, G1, I'm still holding on for DF for the PS2.... XD
I found my old siggie! MUAH HAHAHAHAHA!!!
~~~ Sir Kizyr: ::high-pitched voice:: Ohh lookit me, I'm a cute li'l elf! MiaAusa: Oh wait! NO I GET IT. MiaAusa: It's him finally fessing up the the fact that HE IS a cut li'l elf. :d MiaAusa: Hey, chance" NO I GET IT" to "NOW I GET IT" MiaAusa: change** MiaAusa: I'm mad with grammar today MiaAusa: bad**
I'm mad with grammar too.
~~~ Sir Kizyr: Here's a lovely song about my favorite food Sir Kizyr: Lima, lento, soy, and pinto ~ Navy, northern, and garbanzo! ~ Kidneys and frijoles negros Sir Kizyr: I love beans, I love beans, woo woo woo! ~ How 'bout you? ~ High in fiber ~ Low in fat ~ Hey, I betcha didn't know that Sir Kizyr: When I eat beans, I sit in my little cloud, I don't know why ~ maybe 'cause I'm cuttin' muffins ~~ Because.... Sir Kizyr: I love beans! Hey hey hey! ~ I love beans everyday! ~ Beans are an excellent source of protein ~ I love beans! Sir Kizyr: Diggydoo!
~~~
You know, since he did say that this new company was platform specific like WD was, could it be possible that any new Lunar game we *might* get could eventually be done by them?
- "Sometimes life smiles when it kicks you down. The trick is to smile back."
phyco126 wrote:You know, since he did say that this new company was platform specific like WD was, could it be possible that any new Lunar game we *might* get could eventually be done by them?
Possible. Two things would probably need to happen. First, Ubisoft would need to stop being the U.S distributor of the Lunar games. I don't know if they have an exclusive contract with Game Arts for them now or not, so it depends on the nature of that arrangement. Second, Game Arts, of course, would need to agree to make more Lunar games and let Gaijnworks do it...
Personally, I think the Ubisoft issue is the more difficult one.
Vic knows what the word means on the surface, but he doesn't know Dragon Diamond about the subtext and connotation of the word. It's how fanfic writers will toss in the word "baka" in their fanfics like it's normal and not irritating. The dictionary meaning isn't enough to know what the word means, so that's where his fault lies.
The whole "taking the word back" thing is also nonsense. It still legitimizes the term. Hey, I think that if all blacks in the US start waving the Confederate Flag, then they would successfully eliminate its use as a symbol of racism (and, incidentally, retain its use as a symbol of Southern heritage). That doesn't mean I have any kind of right to start waving the Confederate Flag myself, or tell African-Americans that they should start doing this.
Anyway, regarding the name itself, sure, I think it has potential. But I'm actually not getting my hopes up. I don't have a lot of faith in Vic's business sense, so I don't see cause to get all worked up at present. Hey, if he proves me wrong, win-win situation there, but it would be a shock to me if this company is going to be around long enough to bring over anything significant. KF
GhaleonOne wrote:Side note: Anyone want to predict what game he might liscense first? Last we heard from him, Xbox 360 was in the picture, but that was around 9 months ago. Things change quickly, and with new systems coming out, should be interesting.
Hmm... I don't know. I can't think of any RPGs that he would liscense. Hopefully he will be able to get Lunar back from Ubisoft. That way there won't be those strange translations.
And Kizyr: Are you ALWAYS that negative? Just curious.
Zophar wrote:And Kizyr: Are you ALWAYS that negative? Just curious.
Kiz is a fairly level-headed guy (on here at least), and I for one trust his judgment that this name selection deserves an extreme reaction. As far as I know, he probably knows more about Japanese culture than the rest of us here combined.
I think his comment about my negativity mostly applied to my pessimism at Vic actually managing to pull this project off. It's simply that I question his business sense, and that's it. Nothing personal, and I admire his ideals, but I don't seriously think that he can financially pull it off (at least, not for very long). So I'm not getting my hopes up about his company taking off like WD did back in its heyday.
Again, if he proves me wrong, I ain't complainin'.
Regarding the name selection, it's a combination of what I've learned about the Japanese language and culture, and my own beliefs about race relations both in Japan and in general. And I don't think that Vic has the kind of experience with actual racism that he can go around tossing a racist term like that while understanding its real meaning. He's got the dictionary meaning down, but he's applying a very limited English understanding of the term. Again, using it as a joke is one thing, but picking it as the name of your company? There's no way that isn't stupid.
I actually do think that he'll run into problems with Japanese companies taking him seriously, unless he does change the name. Hell lots of folks might not even want to say the name of the company. KF
Kizyr wrote:And I don't think that Vic has the kind of experience with actual racism that he can go around tossing a racist term like that while understanding its real meaning.
You mean like how black people can say the "n" word jokingly and casually, but if a white person says it they get their teeth beat in? (Which, is really something I never understood, both why they would want to say the word to begin with and why they would get mad when someone tries to imitate, but whatever.)
- "Sometimes life smiles when it kicks you down. The trick is to smile back."
Kizyr wrote:And I don't think that Vic has the kind of experience with actual racism that he can go around tossing a racist term like that while understanding its real meaning.
You mean like how black people can say the "n" word jokingly and casually, but if a white person says it they get their teeth beat in? (Which, is really something I never understood, both why they would want to say the word to begin with and why they would get mad when someone tries to imitate, but whatever.)
I actually understand this quite well. It's similar to how gay people good-naturedly refer to each other as queens and fags, and it's taken in stride, but if I heard a straight person using these terms we'd probably come to blows.
Dunno, I'm not gay or anything, but me and my friends use the term quite a lot. Whether we mean it or whatever to just jokingly calling each other it. Though I still get a kick with using queer, gay, fag, and one other word (can't think of it suddenly Oo; ) in the same sentence. One would think it was a mean thing to say, until you realize that if you used the original meanings the sentance was rather funny.
- "Sometimes life smiles when it kicks you down. The trick is to smile back."
I think y'all are mostly on the right track... Maybe reasoning through this with a few examples could help...
A few of my friends have spent a longer while in Japan (one for a year of study abroad, another for two years of JET--both speak reasonably good Japanese, probably my level or so). One was talking about getting stopped by a police officer in Japan while on her bike, 'cause the officer suspected that she stole the bike--the other commented that it was just "driving while gaijin" (like "DWB - driving while Black" in the US getting you stopped). Or, when the guy on Outpost Nine (I linked that in an earlier post I believe) talks about "Gaijin Perimeter", as that space around you on crowded trains, 'cause folks are less likely to sit beside you even if they're forced to stand. I don't mind either of those contexts...
The comparison with the word 'queer' works up to an extent. What Vic misses is that (a) just because he's not Japanese, he's not in a position where he can 'take back' a racist term, and (b) the word 'queer' used by gays here utilizes some verbal irony, and verbal irony does not carry over in Japanese.
(A) I already talked about. But the funny thing with (B) on verbal irony and sarcasm is that they translate very badly into Japanese--I give up being sarcastic altogether just because I can't get it right (although, wordplay and puns are real common in Japanese humor). I really do think that Vic's lacking the same kind of foresight when Chevy tried to sell the Nova in Latin America (No Va = doesn't go [anywhere]); he's translating the literal meaning, but doesn't understand that the kind of verbal irony he's going for isn't gonna translate over very well. KF
Honestly, I don't think it'll matter much. A few years back, I had tried talking to folks at Gekko, Gonzo, etc. (different companies involved with Lunar's creation in some form). Most of them recognized Working Designs as "GameArts USA". Vic has very well established contacts in Japan. The only way I can see the name really hurting him is with new people he might contact from companies he may not have dealt with.
But then, I think Gaijinworks first work will be translating Tengai Makyou Ziria for Hudson USA. Not publishing it.
GhaleonOne wrote:Honestly, I don't think it'll matter much. A few years back, I had tried talking to folks at Gekko, Gonzo, etc. (different companies involved with Lunar's creation in some form). Most of them recognized Working Designs as "GameArts USA". Vic has very well established contacts in Japan. The only way I can see the name really hurting him is with new people he might contact from companies he may not have dealt with.
But then, I think Gaijinworks first work will be translating Tengai Makyou Ziria for Hudson USA. Not publishing it.
That be nice start considering Hudson soft doesnt seem care about doing it
But has anyone heard anything from Gaijinworks?
I been wondering there still alive! lol
Sorry to dig this ancient topic out of the graveyard, but does anyone have any new news on what's going on these days with Vic and his unfortunately-named company? I've been curious lately, and the website hasn't changed since it was first put up. Anyone got any news?
