Completed!
- Angelalex242
- Legendary Hero
- Posts: 1315
- jedwabna poszewka na poduszkę 70x80
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:38 pm
- Location: Lucia's Fortress
Another advance question...where the HELL is Althena's Sword? Did she not make it yet? Also...White Dragon Wings, Dragon Ring, Red Dragon Shield, Blue Dragon Helmet, Black Dragon Armor. Where the hell did all THAT stuff go?
In an attempt to answer my own question...perhaps the Dragons simply conform themselves to what the one who passes their trials wants of them?
But Althena's sword should've been created already...right?
In an attempt to answer my own question...perhaps the Dragons simply conform themselves to what the one who passes their trials wants of them?
But Althena's sword should've been created already...right?
Don't blame me, Lucia promised me lots of snuggles and cuddles if I would be her PR guy.
Angelalex242:
That was Kiz's suggestion too: that the items reflect the wearer, so rings for Dragonmaster Sonic.
But no, no Althena's sword that I could see, sorry. I don't think swords are Jian's thing anyway... maybe Althena's shoes?
In response to Shiva Indis:
If Ignatius has contempt for Althena, he seems strangely obedient.
That was Kiz's suggestion too: that the items reflect the wearer, so rings for Dragonmaster Sonic.
But no, no Althena's sword that I could see, sorry. I don't think swords are Jian's thing anyway... maybe Althena's shoes?
In response to Shiva Indis:
If Ignatius has contempt for Althena, he seems strangely obedient.
- Alunissage
- Goddess
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:31 am
DevNall: have you finished the game? I think the characteristic Shiva Indis mentions will be more obvious then...but then, I haven't played it in a language I understand. It's also possible that it was toned down in translation.
And no, there's no indication as to why the equipment doesn't exist. I rather thought that something else would become the sword, but it didn't. Yet another thing that makes me think that this game would be perfect as remake fodder. My best guess is that it has to do with humans not having much magic yet. Also...(endgame spoiler)
Conceivably, Ignatius could have some or all of the equipment; we never fight him other than that first lopsided encounter. The dragons have already given away the equipment, so they can't give it to Jian, but hadn't previously been in the habit of awarding magic because no humans could wield it at that time anyway...? Not that that really fits, though.
And no, there's no indication as to why the equipment doesn't exist. I rather thought that something else would become the sword, but it didn't. Yet another thing that makes me think that this game would be perfect as remake fodder. My best guess is that it has to do with humans not having much magic yet. Also...(endgame spoiler)
Conceivably, Ignatius could have some or all of the equipment; we never fight him other than that first lopsided encounter. The dragons have already given away the equipment, so they can't give it to Jian, but hadn't previously been in the habit of awarding magic because no humans could wield it at that time anyway...? Not that that really fits, though.
- Shiva Indis
- White Dragon Knight
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:59 pm
- Location: Genjuukai
Return to DevNall!
I checked the first Ignantius scene in Japanese, and Ignatius' dialogue has some subtle layers of meaning that might be difficult to capture in translation. (For example he says "yo ha igunatiusu nari", which is likely to be translated 'I am Ignatius" - but the word choice contains an implicit demand for respect on the level of a divinity.) I don't know if this carries over in the English version, but...
Ignatius uses "Arutena no yatsu me" or Arutena me" to refer to the Goddess several times - these are expressions of distaste that we might liken to 'cursed Althena'. For me, this was an immediate sign that Ignatius hates Althena.
Yes, Ignatius acquiesces to Althena's order, but he glowers over it. (And his language is not as evocative of power and ceremony as it was when he addressed Jian, which suggests that he's angry over having been cornered by the Goddess, and possibly afraid. After all, Ignatius doesn't control her at this point.)
I checked the first Ignantius scene in Japanese, and Ignatius' dialogue has some subtle layers of meaning that might be difficult to capture in translation. (For example he says "yo ha igunatiusu nari", which is likely to be translated 'I am Ignatius" - but the word choice contains an implicit demand for respect on the level of a divinity.) I don't know if this carries over in the English version, but...
Ignatius uses "Arutena no yatsu me" or Arutena me" to refer to the Goddess several times - these are expressions of distaste that we might liken to 'cursed Althena'. For me, this was an immediate sign that Ignatius hates Althena.
Yes, Ignatius acquiesces to Althena's order, but he glowers over it. (And his language is not as evocative of power and ceremony as it was when he addressed Jian, which suggests that he's angry over having been cornered by the Goddess, and possibly afraid. After all, Ignatius doesn't control her at this point.)
「まあいいけど。」
I have finished it, in fact.
He does say 'cursed Althena' during the ending, but that was after she had stopped his plan. Around the middle of the game, the dialogue goes like this:
Althena: Halt! You must not kill them!
Ignatius: ...What?
Althena: You must not kill these mortals.
Ignatius: Althena! Why are you here?
Althena: Did you not make me a promise, Dragonmaster? A promise that you would cease your killing...?
Ignatius: Huh... Well, remember this moment, whelp. One more swing, and you would have been dead.
Jian: Lucia... is that you...?
Ignatius: What are you doing?
Althena: I shall send them to Cathedral of Althena...
Ignatius: As you wish, Goddess! I just hope you aren't around next time.
In the Japanese version, does he only refer to her that way at the end, or at the middle too?
He does say 'cursed Althena' during the ending, but that was after she had stopped his plan. Around the middle of the game, the dialogue goes like this:
Althena: Halt! You must not kill them!
Ignatius: ...What?
Althena: You must not kill these mortals.
Ignatius: Althena! Why are you here?
Althena: Did you not make me a promise, Dragonmaster? A promise that you would cease your killing...?
Ignatius: Huh... Well, remember this moment, whelp. One more swing, and you would have been dead.
Jian: Lucia... is that you...?
Ignatius: What are you doing?
Althena: I shall send them to Cathedral of Althena...
Ignatius: As you wish, Goddess! I just hope you aren't around next time.
In the Japanese version, does he only refer to her that way at the end, or at the middle too?
- Angelalex242
- Legendary Hero
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:38 pm
- Location: Lucia's Fortress
Ya know...when I first got 'em, I kinda wondered if the Bell Shoes Lucia gives him are meant to be Althena's shoes. I also theorized that maybe they'd power up somehow when he passed the last Dragon Trial and became a Dragonmaster...or, at least, a wannabe Ghaleon. Oh well. At least this proves the White Dragon is indeed a wind dragon. But really. Jian looks less like Alex, and more like Kung Fu Ghaleon. Inferno, Nitro Dagger, Tornado, and Rock 'n Roll...roughly converted to Inferno, Cry Out, Wind Cutter, and Lunar Quake. If I recall correctly...oh, a gimped Kung Fu Ghaleon, since Jian can only use one spell at a time. Bah. And he calls himself a Dragonmaster...speaking of which, what happened to White Dragon Protect, Red Dragon Anger, Blue Dragon Vigor, and Black Dragon Grief? Jian wuz robbed, man, he wuz ROBBED!
Don't blame me, Lucia promised me lots of snuggles and cuddles if I would be her PR guy.
- Kizyr
- Keeper of Knowledge (probationary)
- Posts: 8329
- Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 7:36 am
- Location: Marius Zone
- Contact:
To respond to a few of the comments...
And the spoiler responses:
> In the Japanese version, does he only refer to her that way at the end, or at the middle too?
I don't recall him saying that, though he may have with that last line when he just says "Goddess!". But, I'm not so good with remembering specific lines of dialogue (and I have no saves at that point), so SI might have to confirm that.
KF
Me and G1 had a lot of information beforehand to create the website. I think that's been implied elsewhere already.That's awesome, Kiz -- where'd you hear that? Why was it changed? Any other fun things that were cut?
Delrich is a new place altogether. It seems conceivable that over the years temples and shrines crop up, fall into ruin, then disappear altogether. Though, the main temple might have been the place you teleport to, while the first part is there to keep out intruders.Enos said Delrich temple was "once a place of worship of the Four Dragons." This seems new... did anything like this ever come up in previous games? Delrich seemed awfully prisonish for a place of worship.
It's not that small, as you really only see it from the world map view. But it's been "smaller" in each game after TSS. TSS was great, you could actually get lost in the Frontier if you didn't find your way; but SSS and of course Legend drastically cut down its size.Is it just me or does the Frontier seem a lot smaller in this game?
Right... I was suggesting his dialogue have a strong level of formality to it, except when he's insulting certain people. Something on the level of Victorian-era English. Considering the sparse dialogue by Ignatius relative to the main villians in other Lunar games, though, that was probably difficult to convey with limited lines.I checked the first Ignantius scene in Japanese, and Ignatius' dialogue has some subtle layers of meaning that might be difficult to capture in translation. (For example he says "yo ha igunatiusu nari", which is likely to be translated 'I am Ignatius" - but the word choice contains an implicit demand for respect on the level of a divinity.)
And the spoiler responses:
> In the Japanese version, does he only refer to her that way at the end, or at the middle too?
I don't recall him saying that, though he may have with that last line when he just says "Goddess!". But, I'm not so good with remembering specific lines of dialogue (and I have no saves at that point), so SI might have to confirm that.
KF
~Kizyr (they|them)
- Shiva Indis
- White Dragon Knight
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:59 pm
- Location: Genjuukai
More Ignatius (over?)analysis:
What?? Althena addresses Ignatius as 'Dragonmaster'???
DevNall, is the dialogue you posted accurate? In Lunar Genesis the player learns that at the same time as Jian, when Zethos says it.
But anyway...
-After Ignatius knocks Rufus' sword back over to Jian, Jian says, 'Give Lucia back!' Ignatius gives a response that translates something like, 'Cursed Althena, you disguised yourself well.' This was 'Arutena no yatsu me'.
-A couple of lines later Ignatius calls the Goddess 'orokanari arutena yo' - or 'foolish Althena'. UbiSoft's translator shouldn't have had any problem with this.
-Where Ignatius says, 'Althena! Why are you here?' in DevNall's exerpt, there was an 'Arutena me' in the Japanese.
-Curiously, where the excerpt has 'As you wish, Goddess!', Ignatius does not use a direct address in Japnese. He only says 'Katte ni shiro!' which, while difficult to translate directly, signifies that he will not interfere, though he is displeased with Althena's action.
What?? Althena addresses Ignatius as 'Dragonmaster'???
DevNall, is the dialogue you posted accurate? In Lunar Genesis the player learns that at the same time as Jian, when Zethos says it.
But anyway...
-After Ignatius knocks Rufus' sword back over to Jian, Jian says, 'Give Lucia back!' Ignatius gives a response that translates something like, 'Cursed Althena, you disguised yourself well.' This was 'Arutena no yatsu me'.
-A couple of lines later Ignatius calls the Goddess 'orokanari arutena yo' - or 'foolish Althena'. UbiSoft's translator shouldn't have had any problem with this.
-Where Ignatius says, 'Althena! Why are you here?' in DevNall's exerpt, there was an 'Arutena me' in the Japanese.
-Curiously, where the excerpt has 'As you wish, Goddess!', Ignatius does not use a direct address in Japnese. He only says 'Katte ni shiro!' which, while difficult to translate directly, signifies that he will not interfere, though he is displeased with Althena's action.
「まあいいけど。」
- GhaleonOne
- Ghost From The Past
- Posts: 9082
- Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 4:59 am
- Location: Not of this world...
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- Black Dragon Wizard
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:01 pm
- Location: U.S.A.
G1, I already transcribed significant dialogue in case it might be of use:
SPOILER WARNING
Opening
Entering the Frontier
After the Battle at Vile Castle
Conversation with Titus
Red Dragon (before and after trial)
Outside the White Dragon's Cave
White Dragon (before and after trial)
Black Dragon (before and after trial)
Blue Dragon (before and after trial)
SPOILER WARNING
SPOILER WARNING
Opening
Entering the Frontier
After the Battle at Vile Castle
Conversation with Titus
Red Dragon (before and after trial)
Outside the White Dragon's Cave
White Dragon (before and after trial)
Black Dragon (before and after trial)
Blue Dragon (before and after trial)
SPOILER WARNING
You may want to avoid this thread for a bit, thenMormon88 wrote:im hardly anywhere at all
Last edited by DevNall on Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
- GhaleonOne
- Ghost From The Past
- Posts: 9082
- Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 4:59 am
- Location: Not of this world...
- Alunissage
- Goddess
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:31 am
Wow, thanks for saving me the trouble. ^_^ I'll probably still take note of any dialogue I find that relates to Lunar history, but this is the key stuff. (While not wishing to make you feel bad for the occasional typo, assuming they're yours and not Ubi's, I have to say that "Beat King" really amused me.)
There seem to be several things that not only don't fit with the series, they don't fit within the game itself. I'm really not having much confidence in this installment of the series at this rate.
The White Dragon says that the energy that comprises them is released to bestow their magic, then says just a few lines later that Ignatius took his trial, received his magic, and went on to become the dragonmaster -- which implies that a) it was the same White Dragon and b) the White Dragon's energy had already been released and the dragon should not have been corporeal then. What gives? Also, the Red Dragon says that the loser will vanish forever from this world, implying that at that point at least the dragons would vanish after their trials, which doesn't make sense if that would then make the Goddess vulnerable, as Ignatius would have been able to seize control immediately.
If it's necessary for Althena to go into the Chamber of Rebirth that's been left unlockable after the defeat of the dragons, then what is she doing in Vile Castle the first time? She still has some power over Ignatius, apparently, but not enough to escape from him? This needs to be spelled out more clearly, because as it is it just looks like a plothole to me.
The opening first says that Althena arrived with her Dragonmaster and dragons, and then later made him Dragonmaster. Maybe this is just because they couldn't think how else to refer to him in the first statement. It's particularly strange because there's already a perfectly good name (or two) for that particular dragonmaster.
There seem to be several things that not only don't fit with the series, they don't fit within the game itself. I'm really not having much confidence in this installment of the series at this rate.
The White Dragon says that the energy that comprises them is released to bestow their magic, then says just a few lines later that Ignatius took his trial, received his magic, and went on to become the dragonmaster -- which implies that a) it was the same White Dragon and b) the White Dragon's energy had already been released and the dragon should not have been corporeal then. What gives? Also, the Red Dragon says that the loser will vanish forever from this world, implying that at that point at least the dragons would vanish after their trials, which doesn't make sense if that would then make the Goddess vulnerable, as Ignatius would have been able to seize control immediately.
If it's necessary for Althena to go into the Chamber of Rebirth that's been left unlockable after the defeat of the dragons, then what is she doing in Vile Castle the first time? She still has some power over Ignatius, apparently, but not enough to escape from him? This needs to be spelled out more clearly, because as it is it just looks like a plothole to me.
The opening first says that Althena arrived with her Dragonmaster and dragons, and then later made him Dragonmaster. Maybe this is just because they couldn't think how else to refer to him in the first statement. It's particularly strange because there's already a perfectly good name (or two) for that particular dragonmaster.
I remember seeing a few errors in the game text, but yeah, I'm sure there are also a few errors in there that are mine. If you take note of any particularly interesting text, I'd be curious to know.
(Apparently [ quote ] doesn't work inside [ spoiler ])
"...Also, the Red Dragon says that the loser will vanish forever from this world, implying that at that point at least the dragons would vanish after their trials..."
Not only that, but in TSS, didn't it say if they all died, magic would vanish forever? I guess we'll just have to assume the next dragons (Quark and all) were hiding somewhere.
"...If it's necessary for Althena to go into the Chamber of Rebirth that's been left unlockable after the defeat of the dragons, then what is she doing in Vile Castle the first time?..."
This is sort-of addressed in the conversation with the Blue Dragon (particularly near the end).
(Apparently [ quote ] doesn't work inside [ spoiler ])
"...Also, the Red Dragon says that the loser will vanish forever from this world, implying that at that point at least the dragons would vanish after their trials..."
Not only that, but in TSS, didn't it say if they all died, magic would vanish forever? I guess we'll just have to assume the next dragons (Quark and all) were hiding somewhere.
"...If it's necessary for Althena to go into the Chamber of Rebirth that's been left unlockable after the defeat of the dragons, then what is she doing in Vile Castle the first time?..."
This is sort-of addressed in the conversation with the Blue Dragon (particularly near the end).
- Angelalex242
- Legendary Hero
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:38 pm
- Location: Lucia's Fortress
I now offiically join the ranks of game complete. One of these days, I'll get around to doing my level 99 training. But without that training, I finished at about level 66. Still, it becomes clear to me it'll be a long journey. As with all Lunar games, I'm pretty sure level 99 involves 9,999,999 EXP. At about 12k a pop, starting from the 2,000,000 range...that can take a while.
...And what kinda cheesy poof ending was that? Gideon bashing, fun. But where the hell's the Ignatius bashing. Yet...now that I recall...I believe someone in one of the towns said 'you cannot win by perpetuating the cycle of violence.' And the red dragon also tried to warn him...that fighting would cause a winner and a loser. And the loser would vanish from this world. Also, Althena doesn't seem to make much sense. Or else that she couldn't make her up her immortal mind. And how the heck could Ignatius hurt her that much anyway? She's the freakin goddess. Unless Althena faked Ignatius out. Otherwise, Lucia did a better job of taking hits from Zophar then Althena did taking hits from Ignatius. And Althena's supposed to be stronger. Also, it's kinda lame that you didn't get to fight Ignatius for the title of Dragonmaster. Ignatius is SUPPOSED to be a final boss, damnit. I could've wished for that final battle. Where's an epilogue when we need one? Also, what's with Althena being reborn as a human, anyway? This is 1000 years before SSSC, she should be singing a different tune, literally. It...just didnt feel right to me. Not for the time period, and not in terms of who the final enemy is. Baaaaaah.
...And what kinda cheesy poof ending was that? Gideon bashing, fun. But where the hell's the Ignatius bashing. Yet...now that I recall...I believe someone in one of the towns said 'you cannot win by perpetuating the cycle of violence.' And the red dragon also tried to warn him...that fighting would cause a winner and a loser. And the loser would vanish from this world. Also, Althena doesn't seem to make much sense. Or else that she couldn't make her up her immortal mind. And how the heck could Ignatius hurt her that much anyway? She's the freakin goddess. Unless Althena faked Ignatius out. Otherwise, Lucia did a better job of taking hits from Zophar then Althena did taking hits from Ignatius. And Althena's supposed to be stronger. Also, it's kinda lame that you didn't get to fight Ignatius for the title of Dragonmaster. Ignatius is SUPPOSED to be a final boss, damnit. I could've wished for that final battle. Where's an epilogue when we need one? Also, what's with Althena being reborn as a human, anyway? This is 1000 years before SSSC, she should be singing a different tune, literally. It...just didnt feel right to me. Not for the time period, and not in terms of who the final enemy is. Baaaaaah.
Don't blame me, Lucia promised me lots of snuggles and cuddles if I would be her PR guy.
- DragonmasterDan
- Lunar Legend
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:53 pm
I think its kind of neat that
Ignatius isn't the final boss, so many RPGs have you face the main villian as the end boss, then his second form and third and so on and so forth. I'm sure a lot of people were suprised (though perhaps disappointed) by the fact that you didn't fight Ignatius. Originality has to account for something.
Ignatius isn't the final boss, so many RPGs have you face the main villian as the end boss, then his second form and third and so on and so forth. I'm sure a lot of people were suprised (though perhaps disappointed) by the fact that you didn't fight Ignatius. Originality has to account for something.
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- Pao Hunter
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:37 pm
- Location: South Louisiana
Did anyone else feel that there was an overall lack of bromide art in the game. Infact there were none in the ending save for the image of Althena~Lucia. I figured at least there would be a few that displayed locations or action scenes within the context of the story. There were more in Lunar Legend! Granted those were mostly screen captures from the sequences in Silver Star Story but still, couldnt there have been something more? Thats one of the only things that bothered me about this game, especially since its predecessors were so saturated with animation/bromides.
- Alunissage
- Goddess
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:31 am
I think you're using the term "bromide" too generally; there were only three bromides in Legend and they weren't called that anyway. But yes, it was a same that there weren't more stills; I was surprised enough that there were a few new pictures in Legend -- more new ones there than in all of DS. I was also disappointed that there was no way to view the stills we did get afterward. Sound galleries are nice, but I want image galleries too.
I also don't really see the need for a dozen or so ambient-noise tracks. They helped with atmosphere, but I would have preferred more music.
All in all, this is seeming like a game that would be great remade.
I also don't really see the need for a dozen or so ambient-noise tracks. They helped with atmosphere, but I would have preferred more music.
All in all, this is seeming like a game that would be great remade.
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