Did anyone watch the G4 Speical on Violence in Videogames?

[Spirit Icana]

Don't be brainwashed my ass. You know, I could care less if you think Thompson has a good cause. The man is a sociopath. He compares his enemies to nazis and particularly highpowered enemies to Hitler. He thinks Sony and Take 2 releasing GTA is the equivalent of Pearl Fucking Harbor. He wants kids who have played video games and murdered people to get off with the insanity defense. He thinks that the Muslim religion is all about killing people, particularly Americans. He's a racist and a bigot. He's done all that -Dragon Diamond- with Penny Arcade. And he has personally threatened my website and people on it on multiple occasions. Don't give me any -Dung Beetle- about him having a good cause.

do
research
before
you speak

I don't really have time to argue with you. You should take your advice (do more research) and apply it to reason and experiments from what Jack Thompson has said about video games tainting a young mind, and forget about his ridiculous comparisons (I don't agree with the guy on all qoutes).

Rosa, I wasn't attempting to pin-point any specific person as being "brainwashed." I believe I threw the word out correctly, and I had every privalege in doing so. Good to see you've been gaming for some time.

[Roas Atrades]

Rosa, I wasn't attempting to pin-point any specific person as being "brainwashed." I believe I threw the word out correctly, and I had every privalege in doing so. Good to see you've been gaming for some time.

First, name's Roas.

Second, are you going to throw more than just a one liner at me in defense of what everyone is agreed upon is a weak stance? You have not said a single thing here aside from throwing out catch phrases and terms anyone can pull from an article or dictionary.

So far you have not shown me anything besides regurgitated garble while the rest of us have put down hard facts based on truth and personal experience. You have not done a single thing to prove otherwise that Thompson is anything but a loon on a soapbox powertrip.

[Spirit Icana]

Rosa, I wasn't attempting to pin-point any specific person as being "brainwashed." I believe I threw the word out correctly, and I had every privalege in doing so. Good to see you've been gaming for some time.

First, name's Roas.

Second, are you going to throw more than just a one liner at me in defense of what everyone is agreed upon is a weak stance? You have not said a single thing here aside from throwing out catch phrases and terms anyone can pull from an article or dictionary.

So far you have not shown me anything besides regurgitated garble while the rest of us have put down hard facts based on truth and personal experience. You have not done a single thing to prove otherwise that Thompson is anything but a loon on a soapbox powertrip.

My bad about the name, Roas. I just glimpsed at the name for a second and thought I saw Rosa.

I should note that I haven't critized anybody on anything in this topic. I stated my opinions and urges, and then I closed up-- not one regurgitated response from Thompson's supporters or bashers (that I've heard at least).

I do not wish to reason or debate why I think Thompson is "right" on some regards because it involves a little bit too much "what if," and uncertainties of how childern are being raised at home, on my part. I'll probably have to research those accounts before jumping into some time consuming argument.

I support Thompson for what I consider his "good causes," like the ESRB being pressured to change the latest PS2 GTA game from being rated 'Mature' to 'Adult,' careless of who's fault it is for adding the Hot Coffee thing in there.

The guy is stirring the public, and I think his acts has been a great chance to further educate people about the ESRB ratings and its meanings-- which still has ways to go before Daddy learns that games have reached a new degree of immersion, influence, and violence. G4 isn't a big enough network to spread such information, and I doubt CNN can do enough through hour long broadcasts.

I certainly don't agree with everything Thompson stands for, but in concern for the generation of human beings to come, I do agree that the wrong video games are getting into the hands of young innocent minds, and that parents just can't do it all alone to keep their childern away from overly violent, sexual, and taunting content. There needs to be a barrier, somehow, of what children are playing. If some parents are not doing there job, who's going to? And how big a mass will/have these games influence/d? Does it matter now? Will it matter later?

[Kizyr]

I support Thompson for what I consider his "good causes," like the ESRB being pressured to change the latest PS2 GTA game from being rated 'Mature' to 'Adult,' careless of who's fault it is for adding the Hot Coffee thing in there.

The rest of what your saying that's valid is common sense, and doesn't really hint at why you'd go far enough to say you 'agree' with anything Thompson says. But I'd like to point out something about this...

The AO rating means a game is unsuitable for anyone under the age of 18.
The Mature rating means a game is suitable only for those 17 and older.

Yeah, I'm sure that 1-year difference is a huge deal. Either way, the 'hot coffee mod' is an extreme circumstance that doesn't need a misguided idealogue to publicize it. It's like me saying that I agree with President Bush because I think CAFTA was a good move. CAFTA's not what Bush is known for (now or in the future), so saying I agree with Bush implies something entirely different from what I'd mean it to be. KF

[Spirit Icana]

The rest of what your saying that's valid is common sense, and doesn't really hint at why you'd go far enough to say you 'agree' with anything Thompson says.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thompson says that video games are corrupting young minds-- he dubs some games as murder simulators. Do you think he's wrong? I don't believe games are at the point where one can really be compelled to kill outside the virtual world, but I do agree that most video games are corrupting. I'm not going to get into a argument about Jack Thompson here. Oh, and not everybody has common sense (why are you looking at me like that?)

But I'd like to point out something about this...

The AO rating means a game is unsuitable for anyone under the age of 18.
The Mature rating means a game is suitable only for those 17 and older.

Yeah, I'm sure that 1-year difference is a huge deal.

Yeah. A deal that was big enough to get journalists talking. Maybe parents too, no?

I'm not trying to defend Jack Thompson on stupid things he's said recently, but I'd really hate to see his predictions (some bizarre, and others frightening to people) come true. I can understand where some guys are coming from with all the....uh, hate. I won't say Thompson doesn't deserve it. What I would say, is that his intentions may be better than what many are gathering on the surface.

[Roas Atrades]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thompson says that video games are corrupting young minds-- he dubs some games as murder simulators. Do you think he's wrong? I don't believe games are at the point where one can really be compelled to kill outside the virtual world, but I do agree that most video games are corrupting. I'm not going to get into a argument about Jack Thompson here. Oh, and not everybody has common sense (why are you looking at me like that?)

Videogames are corrupting....

Wow. Now that is a loaded statement, so let's take look at it piece by piece.

Videogames are corrupting the youth of America. They are spreading lies and misconceptions about topic after topic. The youths of America are playing games about skate boarding, car jacking, basketball, football, baseball, spaceships, and kids going out to save their girlfriends from dragons.

Oh...wait a minute...kids aren't going out and stealing cars and murdering people because they are seeing it in a game or going off to find a dragon to slay.

They are, however, playing sports, which they were doing long before they started seeing it in videogames. So, kids are being influenced by videogames, but they are only getting more interested in things they were already doing.

So, yeah, look at all that corruption. Makes me sick.

Yeah. A deal that was big enough to get journalists talking. Maybe parents too, no?

I'm not trying to defend Jack Thompson on stupid things he's said recently, but I'd really hate to see his predictions (some bizarre, and others frightening to people) come true. I can understand where some guys are coming from with all the....uh, hate. I won't say Thompson doesn't deserve it. What I would say, is that his intentions may be better than what many are gathering on the surface.

So, barnstorming legitimate entertainment parafanalia that is really not harming anyone is really intended to save us all from that horrid corruption that is going to have armies of teenagers roaming the streets just looking to mimic the outrageous (and we know it's all outrageous) actons of a videogame.

Now, to start preparing for a massive and terrible apocalpyse like this, we should really start having all these laws passed to save ourselves.

Oh, wait a minute. They tried that 20 or so years ago when politicians were afraid of massive teen uprisings....and not a god damned thing happened.

There is an old, and somewhat cliched saying, that goes something like: "The road to hell is paved in good intentions."

But frankly, intentions meant to turn capitilism and freedom of choice into fascism, is something I can do without.

[phyco126]

Well, one the stance of video games corrupting youth... no duh. No offense, but if we banned everything in the world that corrupts teens and young kids, then we might as well as figure out a way to drive the Earth right into the sun.

Kids and teens are corrupted very easily. Why, the other day my 2 year old brother learned a new word. Although I may be proud of him (I'm sure I would be veiwed as sick to some of you peeps,) my mother is not. He uses it innocently enough, not really understanding the meaning of the word (not like I have too much meaning when I say it ) Or how about hitting? My brother didn't learn to hit all by himself, he learned by observing others.

What about all those teens who we see on SNC or other websites that show movies of, uh, nevermind on what they show. But some of those videos show teens fighting it out, jumping from the roofs of their houses on their friends below, who happen to be laying on a table after a recent smack down. They copy that crap from NWO, WWF, WWE, and whatever god forsaken wrestling crap you see.

However, I don't see any teens in those video's stealing cars, killing hookers, and shooting police because of a video game. Will video games corrupt at some level? Sure. However, what about all the other possibilities?

Shouldn't the parents be held responsible? What about those idiotic parents who bought GTA for their 10 year olds, THEIR TEN YEAR OLDS! Despite the warning, despite the fact that it has a Mature rating. Now, they suddenly sue every goddamned person in their way for "justice" because the game had a HIDDEN sex scene?

[drumlord]

spirit, I need not take my own advice and research. That's exactly what I have done already! I am a journalist (though in most cases I don't call myself that) and have written on Thompson before. More importantly, I've written on the implications of video games' corruption several times. I've read the results of the studies that supposedly prove video games are corrupting young minds (which I'll have you know, is never said in that language to begin with). These studies typically start with "blah blah Columbine" as well as "We started this study to show that violent video games cause people to be violent." And oddly enough, youth violence is down. The claims of video games causing increased violence in the short term and increased delinquency in the long term are not supported by evidence in real life.

But regardless of all that. The burden of proof does not rest upon me or the people taking my stance. You don't need to prove that something does NOT happen. The burden of proof falls on those that claim something DOES happen. And that proof has yet to exist. I'm not sure if I mentioned it here before, but the video game violence studies read like the studies funded by cigarette companies that claim cigarettes are not harmful.

[Kale]

Hey I thought i should point this out. a few months back, i was reading an article about an grandmother that purchased GTA: San Andreas for her grandkids (both still WAY under the age limit for the game). well, anyway, someone broke into their house with them in it and the kids were playing the game right? well, one of them got a 2 star wanted level and the noise of the cops in the game scared the guy out. when the grandmother saw him, she called the REAL cops. Now the dude is being brought up on theft and breaking and entering.

thought you all may get a kick out of that.

[drumlord]

Hey I thought i should point this out. a few months back, i was reading an article about an grandmother that purchased GTA: San Andreas for her grandkids (both still WAY under the age limit for the game). well, anyway, someone broke into their house with them in it and the kids were playing the game right? well, one of them got a 2 star wanted level and the noise of the cops in the game scared the guy out. when the grandmother saw him, she called the REAL cops. Now the dude is being brought up on theft and breaking and entering.

thought you all may get a kick out of that.

That'd be this story: http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4022

[Kizyr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thompson says that video games are corrupting young minds-- he dubs some games as murder simulators. Do you think he's wrong?

First, yes, you are wrong, though I'll leave correcting your mistake up to drumlord, who's much more well-versed on the subject, and Roas, who's more articulate on the matter.

Second, I believe he's wrong. Not just that, but blatantly wrong and hyperbolic with everything he says. I've actually yet to see a comment of his that was reasoned and thought-through.

Yeah. A deal that was big enough to get journalists talking. Maybe parents too, no?

Again, that could've been accomplished easily without some idiot lawyer past his prime droning on as if it's the seventh sign of the apocalypse. Rockstar games screwed up, the media would've leapt on that with or without Thompson.

What I would say, is that his intentions may be better than what many are gathering on the surface.

His 'surface' intentions are that he's trying to protect the youth of America.

His real intentions are that he's a has-been lawyer who's trying to gain some fame by being outlandish. Thompson's been around for a long time, doing the same deal talking about this-and-that media form corrupting children. It's only since GTA that he's gotten any attention (and milking it for all it's worth). He owes Rockstar a debt of gratitude like Salman Rushdie owes Khomeini. KF

[drumlord]

His real intentions are that he's a has-been lawyer who's trying to gain some fame by being outlandish.

Kiz wins. He's exactly right, except that "has-been" might be giving him too much credit. Just because you've fought the big corporations doesn't mean you are as signifigant as them.

[Spirit Icana]

^ Won what? Uh...whatever then...

No further comments from me. You guys are looking at things in a direction different from mine.

[Roas Atrades]

No further comments from me. You guys are looking at things in a direction different from mine.

If you mean a direction of rational solutions with a humanistic point of view as opposed to flying off in a hysterical panic without any foundation for possible claims...

...then yes, a different direction.

I won't harp on this one any longer, then, but in closing to it I will say one last thing.

People like Jack Thompson and those who support him also tried to ban Huckleberry Fin for fear of what youths might do.

And we all know how that turned out.

Thank you, and good night. Stick around for the magic show...it's a doozy.

[Sonic#]

No further comments from me. You guys are looking at things in a direction different from mine.

If you mean a direction of rational solutions with a humanistic point of view as opposed to flying off in a hysterical panic without any foundation for possible claims...

...then yes, a different direction.

I won't harp on this one any longer, then, but in closing to it I will say one last thing.

People like Jack Thompson and those who support him also tried to ban Huckleberry Fin for fear of what youths might do.

And we all know how that turned out.

Thank you, and good night. Stick around for the magic show...it's a doozy.

Youths might struggle with complex moral questions involving turning a friend in that everyone else calls a slave, but you don't quite see that way?

... I guess that's exactly why you brought Huck Finn up.

[drumlord]

^ Won what? Uh...whatever then...

No further comments from me. You guys are looking at things in a direction different from mine.

You're exactly right. The direction I'm looking in is the sane one, the one that doesn't involve supporting a man who says thing like this:

Oh, and certain regional governments in Japan have banned the sale of the Grand Theft Auto games to minors, but Japan's Sony has no problem whatsoever dumping this garbage into American kids' brains. Looks like Pearl Harbor 2 by Sony/Take-Two...

These idiots have been so careless as to post on their http://www.pennyarcade.com web site what they are doing regarding the harassment of me. I look forward to working with your fine Police Department to shut this little extortion factory down and/or arrest some of its employees.

The Bible doesn't promote killing innocent people; Grand Theft Auto does. Islam does. Islam promotes the killing of innocent people. The Quran requires the infidel, whether Jew or Christian, to be killed. That's a core essence of the religion. Muhammad was a pirate who killed infidels and who advocated the killing of infidels. Not a nice guy. Osama bin Laden is in keeping with his fine tradition.

And those are just three of his public statements. His private emails, of which I have several addresses to my site, tend to be much worse, at least in a childish level. His last email to my site was, in full, "get lost idiot"

Feel free to support such a person. I originally wrote up a bit more about him and his ideals, but I think the above quotes and his wikipedia entry speak for themselves.

[Roas Atrades]

Youths might struggle with complex moral questions involving turning a friend in that everyone else calls a slave, but you don't quite see that way?

... I guess that's exactly why you brought Huck Finn up.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the first part of that.

I was merely bringing up something along the lines of hysterical bannings of things that are, aside from social commentary that was Finn, meant simply for entertainment purposes.

[Angelalex242]

People are responsible for their own actions.

It really doesn't matter which game you play or which movie you watch. Ultimately, the actions you take are the actions you choose. Most sane people, no matter how many monsters they kill, understand you don't go and do likewise to your neighbor.

[Kizyr]

Youths might struggle with complex moral questions involving turning a friend in that everyone else calls a slave, but you don't quite see that way?

... I guess that's exactly why you brought Huck Finn up.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the first part of that.

I was merely bringing up something along the lines of hysterical bannings of things that are, aside from social commentary that was Finn, meant simply for entertainment purposes.

Oh this is actually a fun thing to bring up. I mean, it puts it into historical perspectives. Trying to ban things based on knee-jerk reactions with "but think of the children!" as your excuse is nothing new. It's being done with a different medium, sure, and that does require a new approach. But the inherent idea of censorship is pretty damn old.

Though, the subject of something like GTA, ratings, and Thompson are quite a bit more complex than just the issue of censorship. KF

[lioyd]

The Bible doesn't promote killing innocent people; Grand Theft Auto does. Islam does. Islam promotes the killing of innocent people. The Quran requires the infidel, whether Jew or Christian, to be killed. That's a core essence of the religion. Muhammad was a pirate who killed infidels and who advocated the killing of infidels. Not a nice guy. Osama bin Laden is in keeping with his fine tradition.

wait a second I have a muslim friend and we talked about his islam he said that islam is a good religion that tells you not to to lie and not to steal and not to kill and he told me that they have a prophet his name is mohammad and he is the last prophet and he told that he is curtain that osama bin ladin didnt do it because he is muslim thats what I heard.